Slammin Sam

[david k]

Come on England, off to Wigan on the 10.30 train for the match, hope we win. It more importantly for me I hope it's a good game for everyone

 

[nickyboy]

YC for repeated infringements is already in the Law. "Skipper, come here! That's three offenses in quick succession/similar offenses. I'm out of options. Speak to your players!" Referee's assessors aren't keen on it being used I'm told.

Where I'm coming from is an automatic link between penalties conceded and yellow cards issued. No ref interpretation, no warnings to the offending side. Three pings and the perpetrator's off for 10 minutes

Not seeking in this to reduce the numbers on the pitch, seeking to make penalty concession so painful that teams really try hard to not concede. At the moment they don't. They're happy to give 3 points to avoid 7. Down to 14 and the chances are you're going to concede at least 7 in the 10 minutes you're off so maybe this would make sides work really hard on not conceding

 

[nickyboy]

I fear you are mistaking 'hatred' of your game with 'hatred' of your class. Or your assumed class with the assumption based on your game.

Working class Union clubs get treated in much the same way!

As do "up and coming" clubs. I used to play for an up and coming club, they won the Lancashire Cup and were very competitive (I wasn't in the 1sts sadly). They used to have fixtures against the traditional big NW clubs as a result.
Waterloo (who at the time were about as big as anyone in the NW) actually put in their program notes that they apologised to spectators for having to play my club. They didn't want to play my club as we had nothing like their tradition but they were obliged to do so due to our recent success.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Where I'm coming from is an automatic link between penalties conceded and yellow cards issued. No ref interpretation, no warnings to the offending side. Three pings and the perpetrator's off for 10 minutes

That would get almost zero support from the refs.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Come on England, off to Wigan on the 10.30 train for the match, hope we win. It more importantly for me I hope it's a good game for everyone

Don't care if it is an appalling game so long as we win.

 

[martint235]

Can't decide between watching England V New Zealand or Oyannax v Ulster. Decisions decisions.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Internationals trump club games, every time.

(and I've only got freeview at the moment)

 

[martint235]

Yebbut I'm curious as to how Oyannax get on in their first European Cup game. There may be lots of channel hopping

 

[nickyboy]

That would get almost zero support from the refs.

Frankly I'm not desperately bothered by what the refs think. The analogy is cricket and the umpires. If it was down to the umpires the introduction of the review system would never have happened. It has, and the game is much better for it

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Frankly I'm not desperately bothered by what the refs think

Charming. But that's ok. Refs aren't much fussed what spectators think, especially the one-eyed CTPs in age-grade rugby. You're welcome to organise games without a ref. Let me know how many minutes you play before the match is abandoned....

World Rugby determines the Laws of the games, in consultation with all stakeholders, including the referees. The elite panels of each national Union will point out the obvious flaws in your automatic yellow card proposal. The Laws have to be applied equitably and an automatic YC for a minor infringement that doesn't relate to safety is inequitable.

But, moving on, what do you propose for the fourth penalty offence, i.e. the one that comes after your obligatory YC. Another YC? (and another after that &c) or a straight RC? Because you've painted the ref into a corner in terms of options.

 

[Poacher]

I fear you are mistaking 'hatred' of your game with 'hatred' of your class. Or your assumed class with the assumption based on your game.

Working class Union clubs get treated in much the same way!

Very true! I used to play for a works team which drew most of its players, and its name, from two related engineering firms. Mostly we had no problems from longer established clubs, but one particular club, M****t R***n, composed mainly of "young farmer" types, was a different matter. We were about equal to their third team (of four), and could give their seconds a hard, but losing game in the county second team cup. When we played at their ground, they insisted on their own referee, a cadaverous-looking Welshman, instead of a pool ref. To call him biased would be an understatement, but even he couldn't prevent us winning both away games one season. On subsequent occasions, we were surprised to find that they habitually "dropped" first team players into their thirds, including a couple of three-counties (Notts Lincs and Derby) regulars, so desperate were they to avoid the humiliation of losing to working class players. It still rankles, many years later.

 

[nickyboy]

Charming. But that's ok. Refs aren't much fussed what spectators think, especially the one-eyed CTPs in age-grade rugby. You're welcome to organise games without a ref. Let me know how many minutes you play before the match is abandoned....

World Rugby determines the Laws of the games, in consultation with all stakeholders, including the referees. The elite panels of each national Union will point out the obvious flaws in your automatic yellow card proposal. The Laws have to be applied equitably and an automatic YC for a minor infringement that doesn't relate to safety is inequitable.

But, moving on, what do you propose for the fourth penalty offence, i.e. the one that comes after your obligatory YC. Another YC? (and another after that &c) or a straight RC? Because you've painted the ref into a corner in terms of options.

Don't take this is criticism of refs. What I'm arguing for is taking this particular aspect of discretion away from referees. By making the linkage between foul play, penalties and yellow cards much stronger I argue that this will reduce foul play

My idea would be that after the yellow card the offending team's "penalty count" goes back to zero. As soon as it gets up to 3 again then another goes in the bin and so on. Red card for serious foul play still applies of course but accumulation of yellows would just result in having more in the bin, that's all

Given the willingness of teams to concede 3 points to avoid the chance of conceding 7 (and thus spoiling the real rugby spectacle of try scoring) what do you suggest? Clearly the status quo doesn't work

 

[david k]

Don't care if it is an appalling game so long as we win.

Ha ha yes, thing is I'm a big fan of rugby league and want people to see the best the sport has to give so would give up a great win for a great game.

Lucky enough we won, I'm now watching it back on tv

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Phil, what's rugby union internationals selling out got to do with rugby league getting more fans than netball? Why bring up Union in that sense? Think you have lost the thread, nothing to do with Union in that sense

Your comment about the sell out was in reference to the comment you quoted regarding other sports pulling larger crowds, and commenting about 4 times more TV viewers than Union.

You are also aware that last season the Aviva Premiership averaged 4000 more per game than the Super League?

How is pointing out that our fans sit on their arse watching on TV, instead of actually going to games like other sports irrelevant? As in my opinion, it's one of the main issues with league at the moment.

My experience of the hatred was about a month ago when I was last down there, so I'm not basing it on 120 years ago only, but it also cannot be ignored and brushed under the carpet so they don't have to face up to it
Who has said they hate Union? I didn't I said I don't hate the game

So why mention stuff that relates back to the original split of the RFU? You experience all this hatred, yet I have southern friends, 1 of which plays and only watches Union, as League is dull to him. His father only watches League.

I also play rugby regularly on a social night where a few of the guys come from a Union background, and mainly play Union. The evening rugby we play is their only experience of playing league. I have not experienced this "hatred".

To call me naive, and untravelled as I have had different experiences than you. Is in itself quite naive, and borderline offensive.

I have immediate family who attend private schools, who only play Union. Snobbery there is rife, yet no hatred of League. They simply don't play it. My school didn't play any rugby, despite there being many who wished too.

I am not a fan of Union at all, but from all the people I know, working class, private schools, from the home counties, the only thing that seems common to me. Is how often League fans moan "you all hate us", yet I've never experienced any of it.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

I wouldn't class league as a major sport and have never claimed such a thing, so not sure what point you're trying to make

The point being that Rugby League is a minority sport, regardless of the money you mention, it is a minority sport, just like Netball is.

Why do you need a 200 mile trip? The majority of fans should come from the local area, so to grow numbers it should be the local fans not away fans you try to encourage, poor business plan if you are basing it on encouraging fans to travel 200 miles every game???7

It was you who commented that you would like to see it played all over the UK. So I commented about the majority of away fans won't even travel locally, never mind to London/Scotland/South Wales. If you can't get people in the stadiums it won't grow

It may have been that school I cannot remember exactly, but not irrelevant at all. Many pro clubs play league to practice and employ league coaches. Playing league in training speeds things up and gives players more touches of the ball, I was in Newport a couple of days ago and one of my colleagues was telling me how much league they do in training. So the absolute refusal to try some league even just in training at the wishes of the players is bizarre and an insight into their mentality

Do you have any citation for this? Many clubs play reduced number touch or tag rugby to speed the games up. Somebody once told me, but I can't remember, who or what, doesn't really pass as a reliable citation.

Particularly when my personal experiences contradict your opinion.