smug around smokers.

[bonj2]

Bollocks! That's called drug addiction, not enjoyment.

Well, if you ask me, it's addictive because it's enjoyable, but your belief may differ...

Hats off to bonj! (he's not all bad is he?) YOU CAN KEEP TO IT IF YOU REALLY TRY! Next time someone proffers a fag packet

erm, well... never liked the sort of fags you got in packets anyway.

but filter fags? eurrghhh! ghastly, no thanks.

Tell 'em "keep yer filthy weed to yerself ta very much!" or something like that. You have the right to say that, I don't.

eh - why?

Well done Bonj. And keep winning the bracelets - just don't let another addiction take over

You only got a fiver for winning your card game???

What are you playing, snap?

nah, hold 'em - just low stakes, and tournament play obviously, otherwise it probably would be slightly more. see abchandler's post above. Only has to be enough to matter, for it to have an effect on how you play. It buys your lunch the next day if you win, so therefore it's tangible. We play it for the cards, 'cos it's a nice game - not to win money.

Well done bonj.

I'm now smoke-free for 2 years and generally feel the benefit.
I absolutely loved smoking until it nearly killed me. I'm not pious or smug around smokers, why should I be?
One day when I'm old and grey and nearly dribbling I'm gonna start again and once more enjoy the company of my little white friends.

Keep it up bonj, but loose the smugness.

don't worry it's only internal smugness. but it will fade i guess.

 

[Abitrary]

I've smoked since I was 13. And have been giving up every week since.

Most smokers live in denial. Haven't smoked now in 6 months due to cycling, yes, but also cornering the 3 points of smoking addiction:

-Nicotine. The drug
-The cigarette. The prop. The habit.
-And often overlooked, the sensation of breathing something dense into your lungs.

I've found that the plastic nicotine cigarettes are amazing, and if you really need a shot, then the nasal spray will sort you

 

[Abitrary]

Sorry to bang on, but even talking about smoking makes me feel like one, but these nicorette inhalators are the mutt's nutts.

I feel the most confident in 20 years about giving up using these

 

[bonj2]

I've smoked since I was 13. And have been giving up every week since.

Most smokers live in denial. Haven't smoked now in 6 months due to cycling, yes, but also cornering the 3 points of smoking addiction:

-Nicotine. The drug
-The cigarette. The prop. The habit.
-And often overlooked, the sensation of breathing something dense into your lungs.

I've found that the plastic nicotine cigarettes are amazing, and if you really need a shot, then the nasal spray will sort you

it's only about (3) for me. it is an enjoyable sensation.
I find cycling and not smoking prop each other up - cycling gives me a reason not to smoke, so that in turn gives me a (nother) reason to cycle.

And yes I agree that most smokers are in denial. Denial of the ability to give up - it bugs me when they say "I've tried to give up smoking but I can't" - no, you don't mean you can't, you mean you don't really want to. Nobody can legitimately say they 'can't' give up smoking - all you do is just not smoke!
They want to a bit, but they don't really want to when it comes down to it.

 

[bonj2]

Sorry to bang on, but even talking about smoking makes me feel like one, but these nicorette inhalators are the mutt's nutts.

I feel the most confident in 20 years about giving up using these

I think iirc i tried one once in 1998 and found it foul. still each to his own.

 

[Abitrary]

it's only about (3) for me. it is an enjoyable sensation.
I find cycling and not smoking prop each other up - cycling gives me a reason not to smoke, so that in turn gives me a (nother) reason to cycle.

And yes I agree that most smokers are in denial. Denial of the ability to give up - it bugs me when they say "I've tried to give up smoking but I can't" - no, you don't mean you can't, you mean you don't really want to. Nobody can legitimately say they 'can't' give up smoking - all you do is just not smoke!
They want to a bit, but they don't really want to when it comes down to it.

Why should it bug you? Your own addiction might sneak back up on you.

There for the grace of god go we ( and all that )

 

[bonj2]

Why should it bug you?

because it's a falsehood.

Your own addiction might sneak back up on you.

dont' see what reason i would have to let it.

 

[Abitrary]

because it's a falsehood.

dont' see what reason i would have to let it.

You are only human Bonj

 

[mondobongo]

nah, hold 'em - just low stakes, and tournament play obviously, otherwise it probably would be slightly more. see abchandler's post above. Only has to be enough to matter, for it to have an effect on how you play. It buys your lunch the next day if you win, so therefore it's tangible. We play it for the cards, 'cos it's a nice game - not to win money.

Bonj Poker is not a nice game the whole premise of the game is to take everyone elses money off them by playing both the cards and the people hence why bluffing is an integral part of the game. Ever since it exploded onto the mainstream and minor players became celebs the spirit of the game has been diluted. Years ago Tournaments paid 3 prizes now a basic small stakes tournament will pay prize money to all who make the final table generally 10. Few are now looking to win the comp they are looking for a share of the pot quite sad really.

As for the smoking well done on kicking the weed I think the smugness is part of an internal mechanism to help you stay off I experienced it on my last attempt. I start my next attempt at the end of the month.

 

[bonj2]

You are only human Bonj

Well, we'll see won't we. When i do, THEN you can tell me 'i told you so'. not before

Bonj Poker is not a nice game the whole premise of the game is to take everyone elses money off them by playing both the cards and the people hence why bluffing is an integral part of the game. Ever since it exploded onto the mainstream and minor players became celebs the spirit of the game has been diluted. Years ago Tournaments paid 3 prizes now a basic small stakes tournament will pay prize money to all who make the final table generally 10. Few are now looking to win the comp they are looking for a share of the pot quite sad really.

Well, you may think it's not nice but we enjoy it immensely - even with low stakes, so it can't JUST be about money.
On the contrary, it IS a nice game. It's a social evening to look forward to, it's an interactive activity among friends that doesn't involve the unhealthy indulgences that many activities among friends involve like TV, video games, or otherwise gorping at a screen, excessive food, drink, drugs, etc. Just a nice friendly game of cards. The money is purely to make people care about the outcome, but specifically designed to be kept low so no-one cares too much about losing it. The way we see it, if you lose your fiver it's cheaper than a night out on the town anyhow and more enjoyable.
i could get an evening job in a bar which would make me more than a fiver in three hours. Would that not be a nice game 'cos i would be "taking the pub's money off them"?
You sound more than a little bitter - you haven't lost a load of dosh on internet poker or something have you?

 

[mondobongo]

Bonj you misunderstand my point about it not being a 'nice' game.

The aim of the game is to take everyone else's money you play not just the cards but also the players it requires knowledge cunning guile and a bucketload of balls. Phil Hellmuth is an absolute master at this and I love to watch him play chipping way at players confidence with his banter running a bluff hence its not a nice game never the less it is a fantastic game.

The all time greats such as Jonny Moss, Amarillo Slim, Stu Ungar, Doyle Brunson, Jack Straus, Jonny Chan and I would put Hellmuth in there as well were not interested in being nice or coming second they wanted to win and at all costs.

If you havn't already read it may I suggest Big Deal by Anthony Holden it details his year as a Pro Poker Player which is very interesting and during it he consults a Psychiatrist to find out why he plays the answer is interesting and ties in with my point that Poker at its base level is not a nice game.

I have been involved in running Card Rooms and Poker Tournaments since 1991 and in recent years have seen the idea of the game be diluted. Not always interested in being last man standing players are more interested in carving up the pot of the prize money and this includes so called celebrity players willing to take a 1,000 instead of playing for 10,000

I am not bitter nor have I done my brains in an online game.

Played regularly in a Cash Game for years till myself and other players moved away not massive stakes but enough to hurt a little if you lost. The same principle applies to Al Alvarez's famous Tuesday game which Holden also plays in and mentions in Big Deal.

 

[bonj2]

Bonj you misunderstand my point about it not being a 'nice' game....

Yes, I obviously do.

...

I have been involved in running Card Rooms and Poker Tournaments since 1991 and in recent years have seen the idea of the game be diluted. Not always interested in being last man standing players are more interested in carving up the pot of the prize money and this includes so called celebrity players willing to take a 1,000 instead of playing for 10,000

don't allow cash-outs then?

The aim of the game is to take everyone else's money

maybe the way you play it. The way we play it, the aim is to take everyone else's chips. It's more likely to be like you describe where the players don't all know each other fairly well, but they do in the games I play.
The way we play it, it's just a pleasant game of cards amongst friends.
e.g. I would find internet poker fairly unrewarding and probably 'not nice' in the way you describe, but internet poker isn't a social gathering. It's the social aspect that's what's nice about it. It wouldn't be any different if we were playing solo, bridge, 5-card rummy, snap, monopoly, or snakes and ladders.

you play not just the cards but also the players it requires knowledge cunning guile and a bucketload of balls. Phil Hellmuth is an absolute master at this and I love to watch him play chipping way at players confidence with his banter running a bluff hence its not a nice game never the less it is a fantastic game.

maybe you've got a funny definition of 'nice', then. As i see it, 'nice' doesn't mean you have to be 'nice' to each other, otherwise NO game is 'nice'. It just means it's a pleasant and enjoyable activity for all.
You coul say tennis is 'not a nice game' because the top pros are whacking a ball straight at each other at over 100mph. But they both enjoy it. It's fairly nonsensical to say it's "not nice" just because the aim is to win and therefore make your opponent lose. It's simple game theory at its most basic level.

The all time greats such as Jonny Moss, Amarillo Slim, Stu Ungar, Doyle Brunson, Jack Straus, Jonny Chan and I would put Hellmuth in there as well were not interested in being nice or coming second they wanted to win and at all costs.

Like I say, for me the enjoyment is about playing the game, not purely about winning.

If you havn't already read it may I suggest Big Deal by Anthony Holden it details his year as a Pro Poker Player which is very interesting and during it he consults a Psychiatrist to find out why he plays the answer is interesting and ties in with my point that Poker at its base level is not a nice game.

If you don't like it then don't play it, but don't come all high and mighty about it just 'cos I happen to think it's a nice way to spend an evening simply because I enjoy it for the game itself.

 

[mondobongo]

Never said I don't like it said in my last post its a fantastic game which it is.
Nor do I believe I got high and mighty about how you choose to spend your evenings. I stated that in its most basic premise it is not a nice game, you disputed this I replied with my points as to why its not a nice game. Its a unique game and cannot really be compared to something like Tennis.

Willing to agree to diagree, willing to play you 'Heads Up' if you can make one of the ride meet ups being discussed for next year.

Your Call.

 

[Pete]

Tell 'em "keep yer filthy weed to yerself ta very much!" or something like that. You have the right to say that, I don't.

eh - why?

Well, perhaps I didn't put it very well. What I really meant was, yes I do have the right maybe, but after years of stick I can't be a***ed sometimes. I remember the days, years back, on the trains especially - one of the few places, in those days, where you could be guaranteed a non-smoking environment if you sat in the right compartment - except ... The years of being sworn at, verbally abused, threatened, spat upon - and all because I would politely ask a fellow passenger to put it out - and when in those days all it needed was for the smoker to take a short walk to the next carriage FFS! Came the time, I simply gave up trying, I would sometimes go and summon the guard - if there was a guard - by which time the offender had finished his fag or scarpered - or just thought sod it, moved to another seat myself.

And being offered a fag myself, when I was younger: standard practice when I was a student, offering fags around, it was, considered an 'essential' in social networking. I just knew it was bad form to retort "No thanks, I don't smoke and I'd rather you didn't either, around me..." so it became a simple "No thanks".

I just think the person who's given up, as opposed to the lifelong non-smoker like me, has a better case to make against the diehard idiots who stand on their 'rights' - a better chance to get the message across.

 

[bonj2]

Never said I don't like it said in my last post its a fantastic game which it is.
Nor do I believe I got high and mighty about how you choose to spend your evenings. I stated that in its most basic premise it is not a nice game, you disputed this I replied with my points as to why its not a nice game. Its a unique game and cannot really be compared to something like Tennis.

Willing to agree to diagree, willing to play you 'Heads Up' if you can make one of the ride meet ups being discussed for next year.

Your Call.

I still don't understand why you think it's "not nice" simply because the aim of the game is to win, but still... and my only reason to compare it to tennis was to demonstrate that both are similar in that they on Game Theory, in that to win you HAVE TO be 'not nice' to your opponent.
Like I say, you appear to have a strange definition of 'nice', or certainly a different one to what I do. To me, if your opinion is that something is 'not nice' then it means you don't like it.

I might make one of the meet ups, can't guarantee it though. If I do I'll certainly give you a game, not high stakes though, but better still rope some more people in - heads up is good but limited.