so... cyclocross bikes

[Ben M]

Hey again everyone.

Just back from the bikeshop (well, three)

We saw one of these:
http://www.raleigh.co.uk/b_details.aspx?id=542

Which is an audax bike. The price is what first attracted us to it (399). I know that the components aren't brilliant, but I'm sure that they'll do. So my friend ordered in one for him to try.

I ordered in the model up to try, the 300 (£550):
http://www.raleigh.co.uk/b_details.aspx?id=543

I sat on a 60cm frame, which had me in a really aero low head position, so ordered in a 58cm to try, as I'll be more upright an comfortable. Bearing in mind what Crackle has said. Thanks for all of your helpful info Crackle.

What are your thoughts on these bikes? I fully get that a tourer will be more comfortable, that point has been made loud and clear. These bikes, of course, all have mounts for racks and mudguards. So, let's pretend that they are for day rides, what are your thoughts on them?

 

[chris667]

They have close ratio, high gears. Hard work with luggage. Stupid, skinny tyres and cheap wheels. And tbh not very well specced for the price.
If you want a bike like that, Carrera (Halfords) do something similar for less.

 

[Crackle]

The one you've chosen is I'd say about right for the price. It's a compact alloy frame, compact chainset of 50/34 with a 12-25 rear cassette so should get you up most things and cope with a tour. It should also fill the criteria of being more fun to ride than a tourer once you've finished the tour. I don't know much about the Airlite range but considering it's a Raleigh they seem to have pitched it quite well.

The groupset is Sora which seems par for the course at that price range. Generally it's sound, compare it to this for a similar style bike and you'll see it's not quite as Audaxy but pretty close. Also, do a search on here for recommendations on bikes of that price range. I don't know them all but it's a commonly asked question and there'll be a fair few suggestions.

It's a departure from the Cross bike but in many ways is a better fit to your stated intentions of use. Money saved could be used to equip it with better tyres, saddle, new pedals, mudguards, rack and panniers, tools and locks, lights, so all in all not bad.

I'm reluctant to give it the 100% thumbs up because ultimately it'll be your choice not mine and you have to ride it and decide.

 

[Crackle]

They have close ratio, high gears. Hard work with luggage.

I've toured on that range of gears and it's impossible to say if it'll suit Ben M but he says he's a fit bloke so quite possibly it will, on the proviso it might not get him up everything but gearing is another big subject. Besides, not sure, buy a bigger block for the tour Ben M, put the other back on when you've finished.

Incidentally are you camping or B&B? If camping keep it light or you will struggle with the gearing.

 

[Ben M]

I've toured on that range of gears and it's impossible to say if it'll suit Ben M but he says he's a fit bloke so quite possibly it will, on the proviso it might not get him up everything but gearing is another big subject. Besides, not sure, buy a bigger block for the tour Ben M, put the other back on when you've finished.

Incidentally are you camping or B&B? If camping keep it light or you will struggle with the gearing.

I squat 100kgs for reps, so I'm sure I'll manage with almost any hill... failing that there's always the walk of shame!

We're camping, but the only luggage for that is a (rather expensive and lightweight apparently) tent between three of us. We won't be cooking etc. Two of us will be using top bags, and the other will take the tent on top of the rack. We've yet to compile a list, but the load on each bike ain't gonna be very big.

Tyre wise, I'll have a look into what size those wheels will take, I was thinking of continental gatorskins, if the LBS stock them, 28 wide.

Saddle none of us had thought of... I'll see what the saddle on there already is like, I will be investing in a large tub of vaseline, and some decent cycling shorts. Pedals, I was going to swap them for some mountainbike SPD pedals.

With three of us buying bikes and touring accessories from the same shop at the same time, and them being interested in some sponsorship (the ride is for charity) we're hopefully going to get a pretty good deal going

 

[Crackle]

Tyre wise, I'll have a look into what size those wheels will take, I was thinking of continental gatorskins, if the LBS stock them, 28 wide.

Clearance might be an issue at that width if you also put guards on. I couldn't get more than a 25 on with guards, just check that out.

 

[punkypossum]

I sat on a 60cm frame, which had me in a really aero low head position, so ordered in a 58cm to try, as I'll be more upright an comfortable. Bearing in mind what Crackle has said. Thanks for all of your helpful info Crackle.

Call me thick, but surely a smaller frame would put you into an even more aero position? The headtube will be lower and your saddle will be higher on a smaller frame! If you want upright, you usually need a larger frame (or one with a shorter toptube).

 

[Ben M]

Call me thick, but surely a smaller frame would put you into an even more aero position? The headtube will be lower and your saddle will be higher on a smaller frame! If you want upright, you usually need a larger frame (or one with a shorter toptube).

Well I went for a 58, as a 60 just was too big. I'll see how it feels. I guess it's swings and roundabouts, if it's a shorter reach, then you don't need to get as low to reach out.

Clearance might be an issue at that width if you also put guards on. I couldn't get more than a 25 on with guards, just check that out.

The shop will be fitting whatever I choose to go for, so I'll see what they say, I'm sure that they won't fit something that rubs

 

[Crackle]

Call me thick, but surely a smaller frame would put you into an even more aero position? The headtube will be lower and your saddle will be higher on a smaller frame! If you want upright, you usually need a larger frame (or one with a shorter toptube).

It's compact frame though, so it's 'normally' more upright than a conventional frame but yes, smaller frame, higher seat height but less reach which might be the issue? There are options stem wise to raise the bars if needed, I'm sure you know more about this than me now Punky.

Noticed where you are now Ben. Is it a Chester shop or a Bristol shop you are going to?

Also, reading around there's not much about the Raleigh range, review wise but the higher end Carbon Airlite got a good review as did the crosser in the range. A quick component comparison between a Giant Defy 4 and the 200 looked quite favourable as well. All in all looks like Raleigh have sorted out a decent competitive range.

 

[punkypossum]

Hmph, yup, I seem to have turned into a bit of an involuntary expert on bike sizing and frame proportions - not the most fascinating topic in the world, but hey...

What I was trying to say is that if the position was too aero on a 60 frame, then it's going to be more aero on a 58. Yes, the 58 will have a shorter reach, but your bum is still going to be higher up, so you are going to be stretched one way or another, just in a more diagonal line from the larger frame. If that is not comfortable, then maybe the bike that you are looking at has too long a reach to start off with and it might not be the right frame for you, no matter what size you go for.

 

[Ben M]

The 60 just felt generally huge, I could barely get on and off the thing!

I'll see how the 58 feels on the 30th when i get to try it out =]

 

[MacB]

Ben, when I first got my saddle up to the right height it felt really precarious, I couldn't reach the ground with my feet. But you quickly get used to it and I just automatically slide forward over the cross bar to get a foot down now. I would now lean to a bigger size frame for longer distance comfort.

As PP says reach is key and isn't just a factor of top tube length. Comparing between bikes I measure from the nose of the saddle to the centre of the hand position on the bars. Your saddle height, in relation to pedal, should always be the same. The height of the bars will also adjust the reach distance.

 

[cyberpete]

I have a 2009 expede 1.0 - it has 2 botel mounts and has full front and rear mudguards. Modern CX bikes seem to be geeting more domesticated

 

[andym]

Modern CX bikes seem to be geeting more domesticated

After this thread I was curious about the real differences between cross bikes, tourers, and audax bikes. So I did a bit of research (see pdf table). Unfortunately the results are somewhat skewed towards American manufacturers because they are better at publishing data on bike geometry than British firms. Also to keep things simple I chose one size - this may also have skewed the results.

The results suggest to me that about the only things you can say with any degree of certainty is that 'cross' bikes tend to have a higher BB height, and tourers tend to have longer chainstays and a longer wheelbase.

It's certainly not true to say that cross bikes have a shorter top tube than tourers and therefore a more cramped riding position. Some had short top tubes, but in fact in my mini-survey two cross bikes had the longest top tubes.

The differences between manufacturers/designers seem to be at least as important, if not more important than the type of bike. So best advice seems to be to ask about the geometry of that specific bike.