So do WE feel safer on the so called dutch roundabouts?

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Personally, I'd worry more about what is safer than what feels safer. Evidence based policy, not emotion based policy or opinion based policy.

After all, to listen to pedestrians, you'd think cyclists are a bigger menace than cars:

Totally agree, however on a cycling forum, it's a bit of a moot point to be honest, point of this topic was just to ask if we (the intended group of dutch style roundabouts) actually feel safer. So that we at least know that either where not alone in the concerns voiced or agree or not agree with the general sentiment.

Infrastructure can only do so much, how safe you feel is a combination of the attitude of the drivers and the built environment you have around you. I felt almost as safe in Ireland as I did in the Netherlands, but that's because most of the Irish drivers I encountered in Ireland were almost hesitant to a fault.

It's a combination of things, because the cycling infrastructure is so good in the Netherlands poeple feel like, if they don't need something heavy or big they would much be quicker and convenient to cycle to the shops then take the car. If more poeple do that the next time they drive in their car they are more likely to understand how to respond to a bicycle nad/or give war/room/etc.

I think it's unlikely you'll ever feel as safe in the UK while using good infrastructure as you would in NL, that's why attitudes have to change. That takes a long time though. Getting the political will and finance to build good quality cycling infrastructure usually seems very difficult and prolonged, but compared to changing attitudes it's straight forward. We shouldn't wait for attitudes towards vulnerable road users to change before we build the infrastructure. The infrastructure helps change attitudes by convincing more drivers to also cycle, but I suspect it takes a generation or two.

Yes that is one said thruth the other is we have ebikes now so even if the government would spend billions to convert every road it still wouldn't be the same, the health benefits we could have had aren't there anymore (as they are quickly disappearing in the Netherlands aswell mainly thanks to ebikes.)
But what i see as one of the biggest problem is that from the con council to the other everyone seems to have a different view leading to very different road infrastructures etc.

 

[mjr]

[...] the other is we have ebikes now so even if the government would spend billions to convert every road it still wouldn't be the same, the health benefits we could have had aren't there anymore (as they are quickly disappearing in the Netherlands aswell mainly thanks to ebikes.)

Is there evidence of that? It used to be said that people cycled more on e-bikes and so negated the reduced effort. But I could see some ways that effect might not scale.

 

[classic33]

Totally agree, however on a cycling forum, it's a bit of a moot point to be honest, point of this topic was just to ask if we (the intended group of dutch style roundabouts) actually feel safer. So that we at least know that either where not alone in the concerns voiced or agree or not agree with the general sentiment.

If you don't want honest answers from the people who this type of roundabout is intended for, it's pointless asking the question.
The honest answer, for myself, is no. They create an additional lane of traffic away from the main flow, that has to be crossed once the roundabout proper has been negotiated.

 

[Psamathe]

Personally, I'd worry more about what is safer than what feels safer.

I'm uncertain and wonder if it's more complex. Many say more cyclists improves safety. But a significant hindrance to people starting or using cycles is perceived danger.

Try convincing a parent it's fine for their child to cycle to school as close passes might be scary but not as dangerous as they might seem (apparently).

Same where cyclists and motorists get yo interact.

Ian

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Is there evidence of that? It used to be said that people cycled more on e-bikes and so negated the reduced effort. But I could see some ways that effect might not scale.

Hard evidence is off course hard because there are so many more factors at play, but roughly since the mass introduction/availability of ebikes youth obesity went trough the roof in the Netherlands. (and yes there are other factors to blame like mobile phones etc. etc. but it seemsto be at least a strong indicator.

If you don't want honest answers

yes but the point being made was about wat [nb]is[/b] safer vs what feels[/safer which is an excellent point that's why i said in the bit you did not make bold that i totally agreed. i just don't think it's a point anyone needs convincing on a cycling forum. i would be a much more interesting point on a forum for gt cars for example.
So honest answers very welcome, honest reply too right?

from the people who this type of roundabout is intended for, it's pointless asking the question.
The honest answer, for myself, is no. They create an additional lane of traffic away from the main flow, that has to be crossed once the roundabout proper has been negotiated.

I get where you're coming from in terms of ''negotiating the main flow'' that is indeed very shitty and i consequence of ''dutch roundabouts'' being adapted to british roads, in the netherlands most roundsabouts don't end up having to merge into the road but into the dedicated cycle path next to the road. (which are of much higher quality as what they call ''cycle paths'' here.

 

[classic33]

yes but the point being made was about wat [nb]is[/b] safer vs what feels[/safer which is an excellent point that's why i said in the bit you did not make bold that i totally agreed. i just don't think it's a point anyone needs convincing on a cycling forum. i would be a much more interesting point on a forum for gt cars for example.
So honest answers very welcome, honest reply too right?

Safer is when the chance of getting hit goes down. Doing something that increases the chances of being hit, isn't safer.
My opinion only of course.

I get where you're coming from in terms of ''negotiating the main flow'' that is indeed very shitty and i consequence of ''dutch roundabouts'' being adapted to british roads, in the netherlands most roundsabouts don't end up having to merge into the road but into the dedicated cycle path next to the road. (which are of much higher quality as what they call ''cycle paths'' here.

Removing one form of vehicle from the traffic flow, and placing it into it's own, separated "lane", doesn't help especially when it's done at selected points only.

Nearest, to me, example I know of is at a motorway junction. I approach in the outside lane, which becomes the centre lane at the roundabout. Left lane is motorway traffic only. That's one lane of moving traffic to cross to get to the Dutch Roundabout. It's then cross the slip road onto the motorway, across traffic that has already cleared the roundabout. Follow the Dutch Roundabout round, then cross at the slip road coming off the motorway. Round again to the next slip road on, and cross that before being deposited back onto the "A" road.
I feel safer staying on the "A" road than the following the Dutch Roundabout. The lanes are marked, with traffic light control.
And the same procedure would have to be followed if there was a dedicated/sepatated cycle path. Separate bridges over the junction wouldn't work due to restrictions in place by the motorway bridge already there.

Yes, some will say it's down to this that or the the other. The reality is separate facilities at that junction wouldn't work. And any that took me away from where I wanted to go, wouldn't be used.

 

[matticus]

If you don't want honest answers from the people who this type of roundabout is intended for, it's pointless asking the question.
The honest answer, for myself, is no. They create an additional lane of traffic away from the main flow, that has to be crossed once the roundabout proper has been negotiated.

Which of the new roundabouts have you ridden round?

 

[classic33]

Which of the new roundabouts have you ridden round?

Of the new design, none. Because I don't feel it's safe. As I said above, I feel safer staying on the "A" road, and going via the road roundabout.