So it begins...

[ebikeerwidnes]

No. They do not broadcast.


If it is broadcast simultaneously, yes.


Nope. Unless watching the "live" section of ITV player.

For on-demand,iIt is specifically only BBC streaming service.



It is actually perfectly workable, but very difficult to enforce.

And it is tricky for members of the public to work out directly from the legislation just what you need a licence for.

Thanks - that is a bit clearer

still confused about what the difference is between watching GCN+ live cycling - and NOT needing a license
and watching live Indy car streamed from the US


anyway - just to be clear we have a license - before they come knocking at my door!!!

 

[Alex321]

Thanks - that is a bit clearer

still confused about what the difference is between watching GCN+ live cycling - and NOT needing a license
and watching live Indy car streamed from the US


anyway - just to be clear we have a license - before they come knocking at my door!!!

Apart from BBC streaming services it is all about whether the programme is broadcast over the air (including satellite or cable) simultaneously with streaming - whether it can actually be received over the air in the UK or not.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Thanks - that is a bit clearer

no wonder people say they didn;t think they needed a license and then get done for it

also makes it very clear that you should never let them in because the possibility that you mayhave got it wrong are there
or - more likely - that the person saying you have got it wrong will have it wrong themselves and create a load of hassle for you


which is what they want because that makes people just get a license because they are not sur eif they need one or not

 

[SpokeyDokey]

I've always had a licence and haven't seen one of these letters before. I'm surprised it refers to "all TV services" and includes the likes of Sky and Amazon. I thought the licence only applied to the BBC and possibly ITV. I have questions:

Does TV services include films or documentaries commissioned by the likes of Netflix, Disney etc? Programming where the subscriber is contributing to the cost via subscription?

People who pay a small fortune to view PL football and other sport are included?

The next remark is not intended to question peoples' honesty. To those who say they don't need a licence do you truly never watch any content that is a TV service? This must be extraordinarily difficult in this day and age? I genuinely wouldn't know how to determine what I can or cannot watch. How does one achieve this?

No live anything watched here.

We only use Netflix, Amazon Prime & YT.

Another household that does not turn the TV on by default. It only goes on to watch specific content.

Spotify, Kindle and the lost art of actually talking to each other rules here.

 

[PaulSB]

@Drago @Alex321 thanks both. I feel much better informed now than 24 hours ago.

 

[briantrumpet]

No live anything watched here.

We only use Netflix, Amazon Prime & YT.

Another household that does not turn the TV on by default. It only goes on to watch specific content.

Spotify, Kindle and the lost art of actually talking to each other rules here.

Internet radio here most of the time. I don't need pictures with everything.

There were two or three things I used to watch via internet/iPlayer while it was still OK without a licence - HIGNFY, and Countdown, but they weren't enough to justify getting a licence for. If ever I was staying with my mum, I'd scan Radio Times, and realise there was nothing I wanted to watch.

And (genuinely) I haven't been able to watch TV news since The Day Today, as Chris Morris's savage satire opened my eyes to the fact that virtually all TV news is just entertainment that feeds off controversy, misery and gore: the more the better. It loves Trump, it loves Gaza. I really do think it is a pernicious influence.

 

[Psamathe]

The Blackbelt Barrister has a few good youtube vids on Licence Fee collection


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o46BHr19Dw

One think legal experts often overlook regarding "detection" is Barb.

Re: stray signals: I used to work for a QUANGO in their space research division in a technical (software) role but used to chat to the very knowledgeable RF radio transmission people and even hack then pre-falt screens they could think of no way the detector vans could operate ands they rekoned they relied on somebody "it's a fair cop ..."

But these days it also comes down to "trust". How much to you trust for profit private data collection companies. Even if you receive through a TV ariel using Freeview, Barb embed software recording what you watch (irrespective of your Freeview device), when and for how long using a device ID which reports this information back to them for analysis which they sell. Whilst they provide a "yellow button" way to "opt-out" you can't opt-out of the BBC tracking.

Barb do state that they don't record personally identifiable data and that every 6 months they'll rotate your device ID, etc. but they are a "for-profit" company collecting data about what I do against my wishes so my natural paranoia means I don't trust them. OK, they can't track me as I've taken steps on my Freeview box and TV to block access to their servers but most people won't and thus if they've chosen you they are getting to know your viewing details ...

Not every device is "selected by Barb", any device can be but they make random selections eg my TV is not currently selected (that might change tomorrow) but my Freeview box is selected - except I've blocked any reporting back to Barb.

People (including me) often joke about tin foil hats and how "big brother is watching" except in increasing areas of our lives these days big brother really is watching.

Ian

 

[Alex321]

But these days it also comes down to "trust". How much to you trust for profit private data collection companies. Even if you receive through a TV ariel using Freeview, Barb embed software recording what you watch (irrespective of your Freeview device), when and for how long using a device ID which reports this information back to them for analysis which they sell. Whilst they provide a "yellow button" way to "opt-out" you can't opt-out of the BBC tracking.

I'd like to know how you think they can do that if your TV set is not connected to the internet.

Which if you are only watching through an aerial is probably the case.

 

[Psamathe]

I'd like to know how you think they can do that if your TV set is not connected to the internet.

Which if you are only watching through an aerial is probably the case.

These days many TV sets are connected to the internet. eg my TV many years old now and you can't even disable network (switch off or unplug wired connection and it searches around for Wi-Fi networks). Can be disabled but a fiddle and then you lose all the Freeview Play functionality, Youtube apps, iPlayer, on-demand, etc.

Some channels from the Freeview TV guide are delivered to your TV over the internet rather than through the aerial.

Same with Freeview HDRs.

Then s/w updates to fix bugs (given how much TV functionality is now digital.

Ian

 

[Alex321]

These days many TV sets are connected to the internet.

Now, as I asked, please tell me how they can do that with a TV which is NOT connected to the internet.

I know perfectly well that many are, indeed most modern TV sets have connectivity. But there are still plenty around without it. Like mine (admittedly 20 years old, but still perfectly functional).

And for those who don't want to connect, it is very easy indeed to prevent it. You just don't give it the WiFi password.

And yes, of course that means you then don't have access to all the "smart" features.

 

[DRM]

All this is very easily sorted
TV Goon knocks at your door, "Hello I'm From TV Licensing" Householder "No Thanks" & shuts door, don't speak to them, send them packing, they're door to door salespeople, they have no powers

 

[wafter]

All this is very easily sorted
TV Goon knocks at your door, "Hello I'm From TV Licensing" Householder "No Thanks" & shuts door, don't speak to them, send them packing, they're door to door salespeople, they have no powers

They can obtain warrants to legally enter a property, however I'd assume that they'd only bother to do this if they thought they had a strong case (i.e. some form of evidence or witness testiment).

I was thinking about this earlier; my flat has both a communal entrance and a separate private external door, with no obvious identification as to each flat. So, if they did come knocking I could just calmly stroll out of my own entrance and go for a walk while they continued to bother the buzzer to no avail.

Also due to the communal entrance setup I could just tell them to piss off over the intercom without ever having to engage with them face to face.

In any case I like my privacy and view any unsolicited, unannounced visit as an encroachment on that, so unless I'm expecting someone / something by default I'll likely not answer the door in any case.

I do wonder what sort of timescale they work to.. do they typically do evenings and weekends in a bid to catch people when they're not at work?

 

[DRM]

They can obtain warrants to legally enter a property, however I'd assume that they'd only bother to do this if they thought they had a strong case (i.e. some form of evidence or witness testiment).

I was thinking about this earlier; my flat has both a communal entrance and a separate private external door, with no obvious identification as to each flat. So, if they did come knocking I could just calmly stroll out of my own entrance and go for a walk while they continued to bother the buzzer to no avail.

Also due to the communal entrance setup I could just tell them to piss off over the intercom without ever having to engage with them face to face.

In any case I like my privacy and view any unsolicited, unannounced visit as an encroachment on that, so unless I'm expecting someone / something by default I'll likely not answer the door in any case.

I do wonder what sort of timescale they work to.. do they typically do evenings and weekends in a bid to catch people when they're not at work?

They only get evidence if you speak to them & let slip you’re watching illegally, they have NO POWERS, they are door to door salesmen employed by Capita, the letters are addressed to “The legal Occupier” they have no clue who lives where, go look up Chilli Jon Carne on you tube, he covers this in detail

 

[Drago]

Yep, just close the door and tell them nothing.

They are salesman with no legal powers.

They need evidence to obtain a warrant, and declining to speak to them denies them that evidence. Most people talk themselves into a problem with the Goons.

Only 2 warrants were granted to the goons in 2023. Even then, if theyre not accredited L1 or L2 hi-tec crime investigators (which they are not) any evidence they gain by switching on and manipulating your TV is unlawfully obtained and inadmissible in Court.

Just don't answer the door to them, and bin the letters, although I have a supply of old Argos catalogues to tape the letters to and slip into the post marked "return to sender."

I don't have to prove to Tesco that I've been shopping at Aldi instead, and I don't have to prove to Capita that I've been watching Paramount+ and not the Beeb. They can foxtrot off out of sheer bloody principal.

 

[wafter]

They only get evidence if you speak to them & let slip you’re watching illegally, they have NO POWERS, they are door to door salesmen employed by Capita, the letters are addressed to “The legal Occupier” they have no clue who lives where, go look up Chilli Jon Carne on you tube, he covers this in detail

Thanks and indeed; I have no desire to engage with them other perhaps than telling them to piss off should the opportunity arise.

I appreciate your point re. evidence; however there are other avenues such as a neighbour grassing you for example or maybe ISP records if they have access to such things.

In any case I'm unconcerned as I genuinely consume no content that by their definition requires a license and as you say they don't even know who lives here so it's just frantic grasping in the dark on their part.

I'll continue to ignore them and post the results on here for our collective entertainment