Spokes.....

[Panter]

So, as I approach work this morning, I notice there's a very slight buckle in the front wheel. Nothing major, just a slight kink to the right on every revolution.

Well, that's no problem for an experienced cycle commuter like myself so at lunchtime I confidently set about the wheel with a spoke key.
Hmmmm, well that buckles gone, but I seem to have a double-buckle elsewhere now. Only a very, very slight one mind, and it's far better than it was, but it's not quite perfect.......

I know, I'll give the spokes a ping. That way, the loose ones will show up immediately and I can tighten them.
Well, it sounded like a Junior school Glockenspiel lesson. Que much tightening of offending spokes and it all sounds slightly better.

So, I give the rim a gentle spin to check trueness against the brake blocks and it doesn't even make a whole revolution before coming to an abrupt stop as the whole affair is now so buckled that it won't even clear the brake blocks....
The next 30 minutes see's me frantically cranking away on the spoke key (that I'm now wishing I'd never bought) and re-checking before another exploratory spin.
Hmmmmmmmm. Now I'm seriously considering getting a cab home rather than run the risk of riding home on the wildly oscillating deathtrap that I'm confronted with.

A cup of coffee later and I'm making some sort of progress. Unfortunately though, I've lost track of the buckles as the whole wheel seems to gently oscillate round the whole of it's circumphrence and I don't know which side to tighten.
Another 30 minutes later and things are far better. Looking down on the spinning tyre, it seems to be tracking fairly straight. It's only when I look at the constanly changing clearance between the rim and the brake pad that it's obvious things aren't perfect but I'm now slightly more confident of getting home.......

So, to my question.

I understand the principle of trueing a wheel, I've read about it many times and have straightened a couple of glitches before when the wheel was fairly new but the problem now is that I don't have a reference point.

Is there any way of measuring spoke tension with a pinch test or something?

Should they all sound the same when pinged?

Should I have just left well alone and taken the offending wheel to the LBS when convenient?

 

[dodgy]

From the following list referring to spoked wheels, choose 2.

All spokes even tension
Perfectly true
Strong

 

[numbnuts]

not cheap
I don’t always tighten the spokes, I sometimes undo them this way you don’t end up breaking any

 

[lazyfatgit]

you sometimes have to loosen some spokes too. if you keep on tightening, something may explode.

 

[dodgy]

Something to bear in mind, over time spokes can become loose. It is extremely rare for a spoke to tighten itself over time. Therefore most truing jobs involve tightening spokes, not loosening. There are of course exceptions when you have to start loosening, but it's the last thing I look at.

 

[lazyfatgit]

totally agree dodgy, but the OP seems to just be tightening, and tightening..... also doesn't refer to roundness of wheel, which can be a bit more disturbing to ride on than a wee kink.

 

[dodgy]

not cheap
I don’t always tighten the spokes, I sometimes undo them this way you don’t end up breaking any

I've got one of these, if you built a wheel considering spoke tension to be the most significant factor, you'd eventually be chasing your tail. Yes you'd get uniform tension, but the wheel probably wouldn't be true. I've been there

 

[lazyfatgit]

not to mention difficult for rim brakes.

 

[dodgy]

totally agree dodgy, but the OP seems to just be tightening, and tightening..... also doesn't refer to roundness of wheel, which can be a bit more disturbing to ride on than a wee kink.

I think the OP would be advised to loosen off all the spokes and start again, would be a good learning opportunity Assuming he can get another wheel to use in the meantime.

 

[lazyfatgit]

Time for a nice new set of hoops Panter, then you can have a play with the old ones

 

[Panter]

Thanks all, appreciated

Sorry, I should've said that I did slacken some spokes as, inevitably, some of them did end up like bowstrings.
I've just checked it again and it's probably not that bad actually, I think I was chasing perfection.
The "ping test" reveals that the spokes are roughly similar tension and although there is oscillation when viewing the brake block clearance, I do run them extremely close to the rim so it probably looks worse than it is.

On the back wheel, however, the "ping test" sounds horrific and I guess I'll need to have a good play with that once I get home.
It does seem to run pretty true though.

The spoke checker looks good but it is a bit pricey!

My main goal is a strong wheel, does the strength come from a true wheel or one where the spokes are under equal tension?

 

[John the Monkey]

If the whole thing goes completely pear shaped, I tend to back everything off to a constant - e.g. two strips of spoke thread showing, and then go around tightening methodically (everything one turn, repeat).

Roger Musson recommends balancing the tension by plucking the spokes - my experience (like that of others) is that it's rare to get them all exactly the same *and* get the wheel true and round.

 

[Panter]

Time for a nice new set of hoops Panter, then you can have a play with the old ones

Oh, don't

I got in "wheel" trouble with the Wife Saturday when I ordered a sparkly set of wheels from the LBS for my new MTB build

 

[John the Monkey]

On the back wheel, however, the "ping test" sounds horrific and I guess I'll nee to have a good play with that once I get home.
It does seem to run pretty true though.

Remember that drive and non-drive *should* have different tones.

(There is a funky method you can use building non-drive with double butted and drive with plain guage that results in similar tones both sides, but I digress).

This thread on the CTC forum is about wheelbuilding but has *loads* of good info about truing and spoke tension.

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16292

 

[Panter]

Remember that drive and non-drive *should* have different tones.

(There is a funky method you can use building non-drive with double butted and drive with plain guage that results in similar tones both sides, but I digress).

This thread on the CTC forum is about wheelbuilding but has *loads* of good info about truing and spoke tension.

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16292

That's probably saved me from a whole load of heartache this evening.........

Thank's for the link, I shall have a good read before tackling the rear