Sri Lanka out of petrol

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SkipdiverJohn

Deplorable Brexiteer
Location
London
Maybe the wishful thinking is that the unchanging constant in the equation is modern, western, hypermobile car use in the long term

No, that's just reality. When societies acquire the ability and convenience to have door to door long distance personal travel on demand, they are not going to downgrade again to going back to living their lives around public transport timetables and served routes.
The vast majority of the population regard using public transport and cycling as something to avoid as much as possible.
 
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BoldonLad

Not part of the Elite
Location
South Tyneside
Going off tangent a bit but I wonder how many people consider availability of services when choosing their retirement place to live.

Reading an article recently about a very picturesque village locally where people flock to live but there are no services, no shops, pub nothing. It was taken off the bus route about ten years ago and there is a revolving door of house owners whereby people who can no longer drive sell up and move and get replaced by the next generation of 50 somethings for whom the same fate will await when they can no longer drive.

I must admit we are quite rural (not as bad as the example above) but I do worry about bringing a load of 18 packs back from the supermarket without a car.

Isn't that what online shopping is for?
 
No, that's just reality. When societies acquire the ability and convenience to have door to door long distance personal travel on demand, they are not going to downgrade again to going back to living their lives around public transport timetables and served routes.
The vast majority of the population regard using public transport and cycling as something to avoid as much as possible.

That some people hold this opinion is reality, in some places anyway. The realities of physics and the laws of thermodynamics don't care about opinions though.
 
D

Deleted member 1258

Guest
That some people hold this opinion is reality, in some places anyway. The realities of physics and the laws of thermodynamics don't care about opinions though.

In most places once people have experienced the convenience of car, its door to door transport and the convenience of travelling to places they couldn't get to before they don't want to give it up and that is the reality of the situation.
 

I like Skol

A Minging Manc...
No I was at the supermarket earlier and passed 3 people sat in their SUVs engines idling AC on chatting on the phone.
This^^^^
I see it depressingly often. They just do not see the world outside their own bubble. In this day and age how does anyone not see the harm or cost of running an engine to not go anywhere?
As an engineer I do not fully get the logic behind the stop/start systems, other than as a paper exercise to get lower emissions status for taxation purposes? On the whole it only takes a switched on driver to be more efficient than stop/start. When you are not going anywhere switch off the damn engine!
 

Ian H

Ancient randonneur
Going off tangent a bit but I wonder how many people consider availability of services when choosing their retirement place to live.

Reading an article recently about a very picturesque village locally where people flock to live but there are no services, no shops, pub nothing. It was taken off the bus route about ten years ago and there is a revolving door of house owners whereby people who can no longer drive sell up and move and get replaced by the next generation of 50 somethings for whom the same fate will await when they can no longer drive.

I must admit we are quite rural (not as bad as the example above) but I do worry about bringing a load of 18 packs back from the supermarket without a car.
Carefully considered by us (well, okay, some of it was fortuitous). Small market town, shops 2 minutes down the road, mainline train station, countryside 5 minutes walk in choice of directions. And we're 20 minutes by train from the nearest city.
 

Ian H

Ancient randonneur
In most places once people have experienced the convenience of car, its door to door transport and the convenience of travelling to places they couldn't get to before they don't want to give it up and that is the reality of the situation.

The way to deal with that is by making the car less convenient and improving public transport.
 
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Ian H

Ancient randonneur
Twenty something years ago I toured around Sri Lanka with a friend over there doing VSO, staying in resthouses and small B&Bs, and meeting up with an old friend from university days, whom I hadn't seen for around 25yrs. The north was still a war-zone, with curfews, soldiers searching trains, and shops selling almost nothing. But the rest of the country was moderately prosperous. I met some lovely people there, and I really feel for them in the current situation.
 
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In most places once people have experienced the convenience of car, its door to door transport and the convenience of travelling to places they couldn't get to before they don't want to give it up and that is the reality of the situation.

Possibly, and that's at least more honest than people claiming they "need" a car because they [Have to travel to the theme park/Go shopping in France/commute 100km a day]. On the other hand, where there are specifically car free neighbourhoods in European cities where a condition of residency is not having a car, there is usually a waiting list of people wanting to move there, and I know one reason people give for living in central Stuttgart is that "It's great because I don't need a car."
 

Tom B

Guru
Location
Lancashire
The way to deal with that is by making the car less convenient and improving public transport.

There has to be a mindset change is the same way there has to be with cycling.

It has been discussed before people will say oh I don't cycle commute because

there is nowhere to put my bike at work,
so the employer buys sheds,

Then it's there is nowhere to have a shower,
So the employer provides showers,

The roads arnt safe, so the council improves provision,

It's too rainy, takes too long, it's too Holly Yadda Yadda.

200yards is a bus stop served every 15 mins during the week and 20mins at the weekend. After a out 8pm I think it's a Quid for any journey. Yet my neighbours don't use it "it's just easier to take the car" "it's unreliable" excuses.

People have become utterly wedded to the private car. My dad will moan heartily about the cost of fuel, then driver 200 yards down the road to my aunt's.

Meanwhile those who live in cities and towns are more used to life without a car. I just hope it spreads. I'm not old but I certainly remember a time when car ownership was far less than it is now.
 
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The way to deal with that is by making the car less convenient and improving public transport.

I think it was the Copenhagen Cycling Blog that pointed out the private car/'alternative' transport was a zero sum game: If you make driving easier for people tu use cars, it gets more unbearable for anyone else. Conversely taking space away from cars, slowing them down, or making driving in a town less convenient automatically makes life better for everyone else.
In other words, a local government has to either encourage car use, or make their town more pleasant; there isn't a third option.
 

Chislenko

Veteran
One point I have raised before is that we don't have large "work centres" anymore where a lot of people would live in an around a large employment and thus commute by bike or works bus.


No big pits, no big steelworks, factories etc so people were forced to look for alternative employment which usually wasn't as close to their homes as previously meaning a car became essential.

A local point in case was John Summers later British Steel (Shotton Steelworks) which once employed 13 thousand employees.

In it's heyday there was a train line from Chester, (now the cycle path) Works buses and a lot of people did take their bike as they were local.

The same plant now employs less than a thousand people so the local people now have to travel to find employment.

I would dearly love to see less cars on the road but can't see it realistically as employment changes.

I accept that for the fortunate WFH is an option but it isn't for everyone, customer facing staff / factory workers etc.
 
One point I have raised before is that we don't have large "work centres" anymore where a lot of people would live in an around a large employment and thus commute by bike or works bus.


No big pits, no big steelworks, factories etc so people were forced to look for alternative employment which usually wasn't as close to their homes as previously meaning a car became essential.

A local point in case was John Summers later British Steel (Shotton Steelworks) which once employed 13 thousand employees.

In it's heyday there was a train line from Chester, (now the cycle path) Works buses and a lot of people did take their bike as they were local.

The same plant now employs less than a thousand people so the local people now have to travel to find employment.

I would dearly love to see less cars on the road but can't see it realistically as employment changes.

I accept that for the fortunate WFH is an option but it isn't for everyone, customer facing staff / factory workers etc.

I'm still not convinced a car is as 'essential' as people like to claim. I had to change employer recently and commuted by bike in a different direction. It didn't happen by accident and I had to think ahead and work out how I was going to do it. In the same way, finding an apartment was difficult because I was more limited in my possible radius from work than I would otherwise have been.

Unfortunately for many people this doesn't occur to them or they dismiss the idea ; often because driving is presented as normal and it's easy to just get a car and use the free infrastructure.
 
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