Steel or alloy frames?

[overlander]

Simple physics really ................... are you a physicist?

Unfortunately yes i am a Dr at a large university granted not in material science.

Have you carried out any studies or taken your opinions from those carried out by others?

No just a hundred yard ride down a bumpy road in my reynolds 725 frame panorama and a ride on my aluminum framed Trek is enough for me.

99% of touring frames have a steel frame for good reason.

Source of your statement? Have you carried out a survey?

The only one i know is the Koga, unless you want to enlighten me on any other touring frame made of aluminium.

I tour but it is not using a touring frame. Does this mean I am excluded as a cycle tourist from your classification?

Depends what you class as touring.

Why haven't you tried touring with an aluminium frame?


Now as you say whatever works for you but that's more a case of what you are willing to put up with as again simple physics

Ahhh ........ simple physics again. Right you are .
Once again i am a research physisist and have been involve in all areas of research for over 20 years now so feel i have a slight grasp on the subject.

 

[mcshroom]

For a starter for ten (oof the top of my head) on Aluminium touring frames: -
Dawes Vantage
Dawes Horizon (pre 2009)
Dawes Kara-kum
Edinburgh Bicycle Cooperative Revolution Country Traveller

 

[mickle]

Softness (or more accurately hardness) is the deformation potential of a material. A harder material is not necessarily stronger, only less malleable.

Strength is an entirely different set of characteristics of a material.

I stand corrected. I should have written:

An around-the-world record attempt is a race, not a tour.
Steel is very much harder than aluminum.
And don't mistake frame rigidity for strength.

 

[overlander]

Of course you are going to find some at the bottom end of the market. I am talking the likes of Thorn, roberts etc the more dedicated touring bike. Even if you go to the mid end touring bikes like my panorama that range is steel only. We could argue this all day, you could tour on a kids balance bike if you had the will to do it. But top end touring bike use steel end of story, its used for good reason, don't try and reinvent the wheel, a good touring bike uses steel.

 

[srw]

But top end touring bike use steel end of story, its used for good reason, don't try and reinvent the wheel, a good touring bike uses steel.

Yes, of course.

 

[mcshroom]

Of course you are going to find some at the bottom end of the market. I am talking the likes of Thorn, roberts etc the more dedicated touring bike. Even if you go to the mid end touring bikes like my panorama that range is steel only. We could argue this all day, you could tour on a kids balance bike if you had the will to do it. But top end touring bike use steel end of story, its used for good reason, don't try and reinvent the wheel, a good touring bike uses steel.

I'll take that as your acceptance that not 99% of touring bikes are steel then.

 

[mickle]

Mike Burrows suggests that it's impossible to tell the material a frame is made of from the ride qualities - so tiny are any the differences between a 'springy' steel frame and a 'stiff' aluniman one. A properly designed and manufactured frame will flex a matter of a few mm, much less than the flex which can be engendered in a saddle or tyre or buttock.

Grant Petersen suggests than the eventual failure of an aluniman frame is simply a matter of time - whereas a steel frame might enjoy a lifespan of twenty or thirty years.

Carbon? Who knows? I don't and I don't know anyone who does. I have a strong suspicion that +/- everyone at the retail end of carbon fibre bike sales knows +/- zero about carbon fibre failure, expected lifespans, the effects of surface damage on tube integrity and longevity and that they are all crossing their fingers in the hope that the people who make them know what they're doing. What's the average warranty on a carbon frame these days?

 

[overlander]

I'll take that as your acceptance that not 99% of touring bikes are steel then.

I do stand corrected :-)

 

[rich p]

Ti has only recently become an option on tourers. I have no idea whether they fail more than they should. I'm pretty relaxed about locking up on the continent but I'd be a bit more twitchy over a bike that expensive maybe. I've toured on alu and steel and the steel is like an armchair out of my small sample size compared to the harshness of the alu.

 

[mickle]

I know I sound like Grant Petersen's #1 fanboy having just read his excellent book, but a bunch of what he says I've been wittering on about for years. His book has really helped reinforce some of my existing views. Such as this: If a decent aluniman touring frame weighs in the region of +/- 4.5lbs and a steel frame +/- 5.5lbs and a complete bike weighs in the region of +/- 30lbs then the argument for aluniman's lower weight isn't awfully relevent - even more so when you consider all the extra touring shitola it'll be loaded with. And if the difference in springiness/flex/comfort is immeasurable between the two materials it leaves aluminam without a tangible performance advantage over steel.

Therefore steel is the only reasonable choice of material for a touring frame.

 

[overlander]

Ti has only recently become an option on tourers. I have no idea whether they fail more than they should. I'm pretty relaxed about locking up on the continent but I'd be a bit more twitchy over a bike that expensive maybe. I've toured on alu and steel and the steel is like an armchair out of my small sample size compared to the harshness of the alu.

I see no real reason why you could not use it, except its harder to repair but i have never bought into that as you can pretty much get a new frame sent out to anywhere in the world.

I 100% agree the downside would be theft, i would be pretty nervous leaving a titanium bike lying about. I think if you are worrying too much about theft it can ruin your trip, we done Vietnam last year and one guy had an expensive Thorn Nomad with rohloff hub and he was paranoid about where he left it.

 

[overlander]

But then again just after reading an explanation from thorn cycles and they go into a reasonable explanation why they still use steel as opposed to titanium. Basically to get the same strength of steel the tubes need to be thicker hence you lose the weight saving. They also point out that they do seem to break more but concede its early days for the frames so might get better so as such steel is the only material they recommend.

 

[Bodhbh]

But then again just after reading an explanation from thorn cycles and they go into a reasonable explanation why they still use steel as opposed to titanium. Basically to get the same strength of steel the tubes need to be thicker hence you lose the weight saving.

It seems to me part of the utility of a touring bike is the ability to leave it unattended without it attracting too much attention or putting your nerves on edge. For the price of a couple of pounds in weight you loose alot of this. 99.9% of the time you will be okay, but I think touring about on a big shiney lump of brushed titanium is not a great idea.

 

[samid]

As I already stated I like/use steel bikes but titanium is wonderful frame material. It is nice looking brushed, and you don't have to worry about paint chips or scratches. But I do have a sad titanium related experience, I had a Ti mountain bike stolen from my own garage.

 

[Blue Hills]

I've got an aluminium Cannondale with a mountain bike style frame - nice bike and there's no reason you couldn't tour on it with just stuff on the back as far as I can see.

But I discovered (should have known this I suppose but I'm not too techie) that the screw-in points on it are actually some sort of thing popped into a hole in the frame (doubtless some kind soul will tell me the proper techie name). This means that if one of my bottle cages breaks I can no longer just unscrew the screw holding it - the pop-in and the screw just turn together. For a similar reason I can no longer mount a rear mudguard on it. I know this can be fixed but it's a serious hassle. My old chro-mo hybrid is almost twice as old and will have no such problems.

For me, it would have to be steel. I can see no downsides at all.

I've also heard a few tales of late of titanium frames breaking. And who cares if you saved a little weight - pretty irrelevant when you're all packed up with a tent etc isn't it? I'll start thinking titanium/carbon might be good for a tourer when I see Cavendish and Wiggo racing to the line with a load of camping gear/pots and pans on the back.