Tandem Virgin Needs Advice

[PaulSB]

Interesting thought Arch. I'm the father and the good ideas are coming from cyclists on the web!!! It should work, it's the teaching that will have to be worked out. Tom uses a great deal of sign language; a combination of Makaton, signs he has developed himself and facial expression.

My son never stops surprising me. On Saturday night at the disabled sports club Christmas bash the DJ announced it was someone's birthday. Tom immediately owned up to this and was called up to talk to the DJ (Tom doesn't like strangers). On being asked how old he was the instant reply was "Nineteen" into a microphone in front of 100 people. Now if Dad asked the same question..................


PS - I'm think a rear view mirror may be a good investment. Any suggestions and what is the best place to position a mirror?

 

[Arch]

Interesting thought Arch. I'm the father and the good ideas are coming from cyclists on the web!!! It should work, it's the teaching that will have to be worked out. Tom uses a great deal of sign language; a combination of Makaton, signs he has developed himself and facial expression.

My son never stops surprising me. On Saturday night at the disabled sports club Christmas bash the DJ announced it was someone's birthday. Tom immediately owned up to this and was called up to talk to the DJ (Tom doesn't like strangers). On being asked how old he was the instant reply was "Nineteen" into a microphone in front of 100 people. Now if Dad asked the same question..................


PS - I'm think a rear view mirror may be a good investment. Any suggestions and what is the best place to position a mirror?

Well, I hope you get something worked out - glad if my idea is any good!

As to a mirror... Are you thinking to see behind the bike, or to keep an eye on your lads facial expression in order to communicate? You'll probably want something longish, sticking well out, for the former, because of seeing past the stoker - Busch and Muller do good bar end fitting ones, on two lengths of stalk, I think. (what sort of bars do you have?). The one drawback is that they can get knocked, but the B and M ones are quite robust, and you can usually just reposition them. If you want to be able to see your son, you could angle the mirror to do that - or even fit one each side so that one looks behind, and one at him. If you wear a helmet, you can get helmet mounted mirrors, so maybe a bar one for looking behind, and a helmet one for looking at him...

If you see adverts for the BikeEye, which fits to the frame and which looks through your legs, I wouldn't recommend that one for you - it is designed to fit on a racing bike with no rack or bags or anything, and I suspect on a tandem it would be useless, because you'd never see past both sets of legs, frame etc... Bar fitting or helmet mount is the way to go for you.

 

[PaulSB]

Well I promised to update this thread as a few people had an interest in our progress, perhaps to pass on the info to friends etc.

I have to tell you the weather in Lancashire has been awful for weeks and I have put off our first proper ride until we got a decent day for it, seeing no point in Tom associating cycling with being cold and wet!!!! Saturday dawned bright and warm and by lunch time we were ready to set off. Tom borrowed one of my gilets and a pair of glasses, looked pretty cool.

Muscle tone and strength is a problem for Tom so we have decided on him getting on first, he's the stoker, while I lean the tandem towards me. I then rather gracelessly chuck a leg over while supporting the bike with my arms and standing leg. I think we will get better at this? We make sure Tom has both feet in the toe clips, then pull the right pedal to just forward of top dead centre and with a mighty shout of "push Tom" I give it everything to get going and my foot on the other pedal for the next down stroke. BTW our village is a dead end at the bottom of a hill.

To my surprise balance is not a great problem but I can certainly feel the extra weight at the back. We quickly found a rhythm and I could feel the changes in Tom's pedaling which I tried to account for. We used the gears far more than on my road bike, Tom can't push hard yet and giving him the changes seemed to help. I'm not sure how much Tom is contributing. If I ride the tandem alone it feels very light and responsive, with Tom on the back it is heavy. Negotiating junctions and roundabouts is interesting and I found myself looking ahead far sooner than on my own. Starting off is hard so smooth entry into a roundabout is the best bet. We haven't tried a right turn T-junction yet, prefering to dismount and cross the road. It will take time to get the speed of push-off right to get us across a road.

We did 6 miles, I was bathed in sweat, while Tom had a great time. We climbed a hill which often has me panting on the way home from a 50 miler so I felt that was OK. I'd taken drinks and a snack happily devoured in a pub car park where the tandem drew admiring glances.

I need a mirror as it's very difficult to check for cars behind, glancing over the shoulder just didn't work - all I got was a big grin!

Overall our first short ride was a great success. Tom says he enjoyed it, next week we plan to use the tandem to cycle into town to his Saturday sports club.

I'll let you know how we get on.

 

[longers]

Glad to hear it went well .

I for one would be interested in future updates.

 

[Maz]

I borrowed a tandem this year to train and do a charity ride with a blind friend. It was great fun. I didn't find it difficult to adapt at all, but saying that the other guy had been on them and being blind was used to sensing movement and things in other ways, so I think that made it easier. He was great at sensing when I was lifting off the pedals and copying. I could see that that may be a problem...

Was this your first time riding a tandem?
I ask cos I have a blind friend who has ridden a tandem a few times. He really likes it and knows that I'm a keen cyclist and has said to me on a few occasions now "we should go for a ride on my tandem some time". I sort of dismissively say "Yeah, that'd be a nice idea." but in reality i'm scared of the responsibility and think i'll be shoot at it piloting and put him at risk etc.

next time i see him i'll just be straight with him - tell him how i feel and maybe he can allay my apprehensions.

 

[Maz]

Cheers, Mr.P. I will just go for it.

 

[Tynan]

excellent and entertaining thread

especially the 'loud shout of "push Tom!"'

 

[PaulSB]

Tom and I have continued to have some good rides through the year, though since I got knocked off my road bike in August we haven't been out at all. I'm just getting back on the bike so hope to have the tandem out again soon for Tom.

Question time again. On Christmas Eve I rode the tandem with an able bodied friend for the first time (Tom has Downs and very low muscle tone). For most of the ride everything went well and I got my first experience of how good tandeming can be when two people work well together. However we really struggled on hills. Is there a technique to this? I felt I was working very, very hard on the front and I know my stoker wasn't shirking but we struggled to climb hills I would normally manage on my road bike, often having to go down to the lower range on the granny ring. We once stood up and that made a difference but my stoker, who isn't an experienced cyclist, couldn't keep that going.

So is there a technique for hill climbing on a tandem or is it just a long hard haul?

 

[andy_wrx]

I said above

It's like a big powerful but lumbering truck - tons of grunt, fast in a straight line but without sprint accelleration, fairly unmanoevrable.
Far faster than a solo on the flat, for a given amount of effort, goes like stink downhill, pretty quick up long shallow drags.
Just a bit of an effort on steeper stuff, but that does get a lot better with practice, as you learn to work together in time rather than fight one another - first time you try to honk up a steep hill you'll spend more effort on balancing the thing than climbing, but it gets better.

​

I fear that may be it - you're probably right to ask what is the technique.
It is balance and timing, working together rather than against each other, and it only comes with practice.

Your friend may be fit, but you say an inexperienced cyclist ?
- and perhaps, other than with Tom, you're a not that experienced a tandem captain ?

Mrs wrx is far less keen a cyclist than I am, which is the reason we got the tandem - we could go out together and actually ride together, rather than me being off in the distance and frustrated about going so slowly, her being frustrated and demotivated by flogging herself silly but not keeping up.

Out on the tandem, I'm pretty aware of her on the back - she's fit enough, she runs a marathon every April, but isn't 100% balanced and fluid on the bike. She 'pedals squares', stamping down in-turn with each leg rather than smoothly spinning the pedals. And she fidgets around, wobbles the bike a bit as she shifts her weight.
None of this really matters, because I'm a few stone heavier and I can smooth it out...

For climbing, she's got excellent stamina but I can pump out a lot more short period watts.
So if it's one of those little brows you take a run at and power over, I pile it on and pull us over it, then I can ease off a little and recover as she keeps our speed up.
If it's a long drag, we work together and get in a rhythm, and this is what we generally do on really steep stuff too - we let the speed drop off, drop down into a low gear and spin up it : we've tried powering up it, honking out of the saddle, but it is difficult.
(I admit at this point that we live in Cheshire and I tend to avoid finding really steep stuff on the tandem - we are supposed to be out enjoying ourselves together and I'm afraid of making it 'not fun' if it gets too hard...
I'm sure if we ventured across to the Peak District or North Wales and found ourselves some steeper stuff, we'd be forced to get better at getting up it !)

However, I've also been out with a male friend who's a couple of stone heavier than me on the back and that really was entertaining - the bike was twisting around with him bouncing around on the back, shoving the power on and off, etc.
We were going pretty quickly but I really was having to work for it - but it felt like more effort was going into balancing and controlling, trying to smooth out him on the back, rather than leg-powering the pedals round myself.
We didn't try any steeper hills but I suspect that might not have been fun at all !

So I think it is just technique - smoothness and balance, working together in-time rather than against one another, and it comes with practice.
'Less is more', perhaps - put less effort in, but keep it smooth, and it goes quicker.

What I'd really like to do is try a track tandem at the velodrome.
Smooth boards and banked bends, find that smoothness and efficiency with a partner and I bet you can get some quite extreme speeds, but all flowing beautifully.