Team BKool CycleChat

[bridgy]

Very interesting to see actually as I never feel I catch anyone on the downhills. Quite a few occasions on long downhills where I've been within sight of lighter riders but never gain on them.

I've no secret technique - all try to do is make sure I've got the cadence back up before I come to the end of a hill so that I can maintain the speed on the flats as long as possible. At the point Geoff has taken a snapshot I'm at 170 watts I reckon I must be spinning nicely, but certainly not pushing hard at all. Doesn't explain why I'm faster than Roleur whos doing 280 watts!! I'm 84kg for reference.



I never feel like I'm quick over the top of climbs and usually start 'freewheeling' a bit early as I see the speed drop then turn blue and pick-up. I think Bill in the past has related a quick start downhill as being a factor for getting a higher freewheeling speed.



Hear hear!! I pedal pretty closely to how I would on the road and wont be changing (the one exception being the manic start off the line!! )

 

[Goldwolfie]

LBHifi, BillS and Bobinski are all Vet 2, RickB, Bridgy you are Vet 1 so not showing in the rankings for CXRAndy

And I'm Vet 3, as I'm a real old f*rt.

Kipster - You wouldn't happen to have a link to how they work out such categories?

 

[BILL S]

On bkool I think there is efficient riding and there is the on/off effect. They are two different things as far as I am concerned. In my experimentation with it the on/off effect needs you to drop the power down to 50 watts or so before the resistance will ease off. I did a whole chaingang ride like this without saving it and was able to get down just below Jacobs time by doing it. Quite effective but not a massive difference (3 or 4 minutes at a guess). Riding efficiently on the other hand is what we can all do knowing that bkool acts in a certain way for example you don't go much faster downhill using much more power so best to ride at say 50% power down the hills. Slingshots, most of us know what they are and how to "exploit" the momentum and power build up on a downhill just before the gradient turns positive so worth giving it the max before gently easing off and allowing the momentum to carry us as far up the hill as possible. Try to change down as this happens otherwise you'll be left with the full resistance coming back on with you still in top gear. Drafting is difficult but I'm convinced that in the right conditions this will help to reduce your overall time and/or leave you with more energy for a strong finish. There are a few of us who ride quite efficiently in the chaingang and handicap races and we are probably going faster than we deserve to go in terms of out strength and fitness. I include myself in that group. We are mostly in the Active group and have been around for long enough to learn how to exploit to the max. Newer riders like Bridgy are getting rather good at it too.
Now strangely there is another group of riders and they are mostly in the Pro group but they are not as quick in the chaingang as the afore mentioned active riders. How could this be? Well they are powerful riders which we know from the Mountain goat rides but they are somehow not able to get equivalent results in the chaingang. I believe this is down to ride efficiency, tyres and tyre pressures. These make a massive difference. On bkool things get much more complicated up at speed, which is what we have in the chaingang.
In the mountain goats league there is no efficient riding, or if there is, it is to just stay as close to your average power as possible all the way up and then max it out at the last minute or so before collapsing in a heap when you reach the finish line. I still cant figure out how some manage to do a warmdown.
Anyway, the on/off effect on a mountain goat ride is the equivalent of sticking a moped or at least a top of the range electric bike on your turbo. I was able to knock around 50% off my time on one very long and torturous ride (again not saved). You basically on/off it all the way so there is no point when the resistance is as it should be so pretty much 20 mph all the way up 10% inclines.
Please do not try this during mountain goat league rides or if you do, please do not save the ride.

 

[kipster]

And I'm Vet 3, as I'm a real old f*rt.

Kipster - You wouldn't happen to have a link to how they work out such categories?

Sorry, I cant find this, so can only assume (based on some cycling categorisation found elsewhere)
Junior 15 - 23 (although there could be an under 19 - 23 as Under 23 in there)
Senior = 24-40 (thats too wide I would imagine!!)
Vet 1= 40 - 49
Vet 2 = 50 - 59
Vet 3 = 60 - 69

I fall in Vet 1 at 46.

Some with racing experience may be able to find something more factual!

 

[CXRAndy]

@GW that is even more impressive performance

I hadn't realised with careful technique you can work the simulator in your favour. I don't know if that applies to the Wahoo kickr. I has a large heavy flywheel.

I know personally that having not ridden more than 200 road miles last year and only started riding again in May since I shattered my calcaneus in a fall early in the year. I was more than able to keep up on a club ride in September. Indoor turbo sessions are far more intense than road training. Well they are for me

 

[Alfonzo]

I just logged on to my BKool account and the first ride on my homepage is the Alpe d Huez where it
says underneath that I have beaten RickB , Kipster, Monte, Bill S and Adski.
Im very confused as it says the ride was done this morning at 09:45 but I havent been on my bike
at all yet today and when I click on the ride details its the mountain goats league ride I did back in
September so not sure why its at the top of my rides list. Is it there because someone challenged
me or used my ghost from that ride?

 

[Goldwolfie]

Sorry, I cant find this, so can only assume (based on some cycling categorisation found elsewhere)
Junior 15 - 23 (although there could be an under 19 - 23 as Under 23 in there)
Senior = 24-40 (thats too wide I would imagine!!)
Vet 1= 40 - 49
Vet 2 = 50 - 59
Vet 3 = 60 - 69

I fall in Vet 1 at 46.

Some with racing experience may be able to find something more factual!

Thanks Kipster.

It looks like that how it is worked out then, as it fits for the both of us.

I wonder if they have a Vet 4 category, or will I be put out out to grass in 5 years time.

 

[gbrown]

Right, I put every age possible into my Bkool profile and got the following...

0-14 = unspecified
15-16 = Cadet
17-19 = Junior
20-22 = Male Sub 23
23-39 = Senior
40-49 = Veteran 1
50-59 = Veteran 2
60-99 = Veteran 3
100+ = surprised to still be around!

I really should do more work and less bkool'ing.

Geoff

 

[gbrown]

@GW that is even more impressive performance

I hadn't realised with careful technique you can work the simulator in your favour. I don't know if that applies to the Wahoo kickr. I has a large heavy flywheel.

I know personally that having not ridden more than 200 road miles last year and only started riding again in May since I shattered my calcaneus in a fall early in the year. I was more than able to keep up on a club ride in September. Indoor turbo sessions are far more intense than road training. Well they are for me

If you are using a KICKR then you are already at somewhat of a disadvantage, varying according to terrain and the version of the bkool software and firmware.

Up until very recently you got no downhill gravity assist (Virtual Speed) at all, but thankfully they have rectified this in the last week or so, which evens things up a great deal.

But you are left with the higher resistance capability, which Bkool may be looking to minimize by applying Virtual speed when climbing, reducing your speed if they think the resistance of your trainer has maxed out. Not sure how well this works, but only really issue for very heavy riders or on steep inclines above 10% or so.

I have always found the KICKR to be less generous than my bkool pro was, but changes in the firmware and software are likely to vary this, and different trainer units, even of the same model, are likely to vary. However, it is sensible to expect the much more expensive and power meter equipped KICKR to be somewhat less generous in both power and speed.

Some of the "tricks" should still work with the KICKR though, I'm pretty sure the full on from the start did, as it will still suffer from the lack of resistance at near stationary speeds. I guess the effect will vary due to differences in the braking disc and the flywheel.

When I switched from a Bkool Pro to a KICKR, long before the downhill issue was fixed, I became very much less competitive, as Adam will attest to. This even though my regular training on the KICKR soon got me back to my original Bkool fitness level, then all the way up to Active 9. I was working on 10 when I had to stop riding.

Geoff

 

[Baldo Mero]

Interesting observations. Can you share the Beta, or do you have more details I can contact BKool with? Anything that might bring us more in line with the BKool trainers is worth a shot.

@Rob_H , Bkool support told me that I can share the Beta BSim software with virtual speed support for vortex with you as long as it is not posted for public access, so please contact me through PM if you are still interested

 

[LBHIFI]

Damn, Jacob just sneaked in the back door and pushed me down from the league top. Great effort there Jacob.

 

[Alfie_Gooner]

Call me "old fashioned" but why is everyone using these little tricks and the like to get better,faster,stronger more powerfull rides..............surely the idea of having a Turbo trainer is to improve your fitness by doing what you would on a road?

I will continue to ride as i would on the road.......if it means i am lagging behind on races etc then so be it i'm afraid......

 

[LBHIFI]

Call me "old fashioned" but why is everyone using these little tricks and the like to get better,faster,stronger more powerfull rides..............surely the idea of having a Turbo trainer is to improve your fitness by doing what you would on a road?

I will continue to ride as i would on the road.......if it means i am lagging behind on races etc then so be it i'm afraid......

Alfie, I ride in an "old mans" club where most just enjoy riding in a steady pace, but the more ambitious clubs often do interval training and sprints in their real life rides.
Doing sprint intervals probably does more for your fitness than just keeping a steady pace.

 

[Alfie_Gooner]

Alfie, I ride in an "old mans" club where most just enjoy riding in a steady pace, but the more ambitious clubs often do interval training and sprints in their real life rides.
Doing sprint intervals probably does more for your fitness than just keeping a steady pace.

I totally understand the training side of having a Turbo trainer as that is why i have bought one recently, i just don't get the reason to "cheat" the trainer in order to get more power,faster times etc

 

[CXRAndy]

If I am disadvantaged by either equipment or software I don't mind. In reality it will make me stronger in my attempt to improve and catch the faster riders. You can see from my heart rate I am right on the limit for my age. I do know that hills that are particularly steep or long are my weak point and suffer accordingly. This is true in real life aswell. Our club do a fun hill climb late in the year. I lost 1 minute on a 1 mile steep climb compared the front runners, where as I can normally match or out power on the flat. In that respect the Kickr performs similarly to the real world.