TfL commits to boosting cycle safety around lorries

[jonesy]

Lorries usually kill cyclists at junctions. How would segregated cycle-lanes prevent this?

The only segregated system that protects cyclists from large motor-vehicles is the railways.

Well it is possible, but that means doing it properly, as they've done in Copenhagen, where the segregated lanes have their own phases at signalised junctions. But I'm not convinced we've got the necessary space on most of our city roads to do that, even if we had the resources and political will. But I'd agree that if segregation isn't done properly, then it shouldn't be done at all.

 

[dondare]

The responsibility for ensuring the safety of members of the public when a dangerous bit of machinery is used in a completely public place rests with the operator.

 

[dondare]

Well it is possible, but that means doing it properly, as they've done in Copenhagen, where the segregated lanes have their own phases at signalised junctions. But I'm not convinced we've got the necessary space on most of our city roads to do that, even if we had the resources and political will. But I'd agree that if segregation isn't done properly, then it shouldn't be done at all.

We don't have the space for that. We do have space for more railways.

 

[Origamist]

We don't have the space for that. We do have space for more railways.

At a large number of multi lane junctions this is possible - you would need to take road space from motorised vehicles though. You would also need remove the vast amouts of on street parking that blight are streetscapes.

At the moment, there is not the critical mass of cyclists needed to make this happen, and without the numbers, there is not the political will.

 

[dondare]

At a large number of multi lane junctions this is possible - you would need to take road space from motorised vehicles though. You would also need remove the vast amouts of on street parking that blight are streetscapes.

At the moment, there is not the critical mass of cyclists needed to make this happen, and without the numbers, there is not the political will.

It would also be possible to redesign roads so that they were much safer for everyone - not just cyclists. Removing on-street parking would help here, not least because fewer people would use cars if they had no-where to leave them at both ends of the journey.
It would also be possible, with a little thought, to restrict the roads on which lorries could be used and especially have junctions where lorries were not permitted to turn.

 

[HLaB]

Lorries usually kill cyclists at junctions. How would segregated cycle-lanes prevent this?

Agreed; segregated cycle facilities can create a false sense of security for the cyclist and driver alike and when they do have to interact they fail to do so properly and as you say 70% of cycle collisions occur at junctions. Thankfully this is being recognised by the DfT in LTN02-08 and utilised by cycling Scotland here.

 

[HLaB]

But that won't solve the problem of cyclist (mostly female) being left hooked by drivers how have just overtaken them. A large part of the problem is not cyclists flitering up the nearside, it is cyclists riding in the gutter and not being seen by drivers...

+1 The only time I've had an uncomfortable encounter with a HGV was when I was in the primary but in the Bus Lane on Shandwick Pl turning left in to S Challotte Street (many years ago) and a HGV overtook me and started to drift into the bus lane. I had just read one of these threads the day before and probably overreacted but I could just see my self being crushed against the railings luckily I had enough time to rap on the cab's side door and the driver was perfectly reasonable when I explained why.

 

[HJ]

It was a policy of reducing on-street parking that brought about the changes in the level of cycling in Copenhagen and Amsterdam. They did it over 20 years, before that change cycling was in decline in both cities. In the UK there has been a deliberate government policy has been to increase car ownership over the same period.

 

[Origamist]

It would also be possible to redesign roads so that they were much safer for everyone - not just cyclists. Removing on-street parking would help here, not least because fewer people would use cars if they had no-where to leave them at both ends of the journey.
It would also be possible, with a little thought, to restrict the roads on which lorries could be used and especially have junctions where lorries were not permitted to turn.

They already do this, it's just that no one knows about it and it does not benefit rush hour cyclists:

http://www.londonlorrycontrol.com/

 

[arallsopp]

It would also be possible to redesign roads so that they were much safer for everyone - not just cyclists. Removing on-street parking would help here, not least because fewer people would use cars if they had no-where to leave them at both ends of the journey.

That's actually quite a good idea. I'm sure there's plenty of reasons it wouldn't work, won't be adopted, can't be proposed, requires ridicule, invites derision, BUT, it appeals to me.

 

[HLaB]

That's actually quite a good idea. I'm sure there's plenty of reasons it wouldn't work, won't be adopted, can't be proposed, requires ridicule, invites derision, BUT, it appeals to me.

In theory it's being introduced in Scotland with maximum rather than minimum parking standards for new commercial developments. Previously a development had to have a minimum of X car spaces so developers just built bigger than this. Now there is maximum Y which is allowed to be built, therefore the reducing the availability of trip end car parking, encouraging people to use different modes of travel. Fine in theory but it can have mixed results, there has to be a decent alternative means of transport for folk (bus/train/walk/cycle) and parking controls and still some folk are slave to their car.

 

[nasserblue]

Shows what I know... Yesterday, the same day as I made this post, I saw a cyclist try to undertake a bus, as it overtook a parked car.