The Cello - one for the bonfire?

[Rhythm Thief]

The main problem with the sax (of any sort) is that it seems to attract the sort of musician who thinks we all want to hear a 40 minute improvised solo over a double bass and some drums. Or Courtney Pine.

 

[theclaud]

The main problem with the sax (of any sort) is that it seems to attract the sort of musician who thinks we all want to hear a 40 minute improvised solo over a double bass and some drums.

Well, if it's Sonny Rollins, I do. There are a lot of bad saxophone players, but the same can be said of the guitar.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Well, if it's Sonny Rollins, I do. There are a lot of bad saxophone players, but the same can be said of the guitar.

Yes indeed, I wouldn't disagree with you there. I'm not really a jazz fan, I have to admit, although I do have a bit of a soft spot for swing. But the Miles Davis and John Coltrane stuff, which seems to be solely about shouting "Hey everyone! Look how clever I am! Did you notice that was a diatonic scale over a mixolydian mode there?" leaves me completely cold. So I'm probably not best placed to discuss the merits of the saxophone.

 

[Andy in Sig]

I certainly agree with you about Coltrane and Davies was patchy IMO. If you want to get a handle on jazz sax I would recommend starting with Ben Webster or Coleman Hawkins: much more musical and fun.

BTW, Claudine, apparently Sonny Rollins is coming to Stuttgart and I'm on the hunt for a ticket. "Hesitation" is one of my all time favourite bits of jazz.

 

[theclaud]

Strange views of Coltrane, who was a modest and deeply serious chap (not in the Bonj sense), and the absolute opposite of a show-off. Jelly-Roll Morton, Stan Getz -they were show-offs, but that's fair enough when you're that good. And only on an internet forum could anyone get away with a statement as preposterously cavalier as "Davis was a bit patchy IMO", about one of the most important and influential musicians of the century.

Yep go and see Rollins if you can - he's in his late seventies now and it's showing, but there's only one of him. He has a voice a bit like Kermit the frog.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Strange views of Coltrane, who was a modest and deeply serious chap (not in the Bonj sense), and the absolute opposite of a show-off. Jelly-Roll Morton, Stan Getz -they were show-offs, but that's fair enough when you're that good. And only on an internet forum could anyone get away with a statement as preposterously cavalier as "Davis was a bit patchy IMO", about one of the most important and influential musicians of the century.

Yep go and see Rollins if you can - he's in his late seventies now and it's showing, but there's only one of him. He has a voice a bit like Kermit the frog.

To be fair, I think all musicians are show offs, to some extent ... I know I am. Also to be fair, just because Miles Davis is "important and influential" doesn't mean I have to like the noise he makes.

 

[theclaud]

just because Miles Davis is "important and influential" doesn't mean I have to like the noise he makes.

Sorry, I half replied to you and half to Andy at once. That's fair enough, but whether you like him or not, he wasn't "patchy" - he was consistently innovative for his entire career, and never off-form. Shame he's dead - I'd love to hear Andy say it to his face .

 

[Andy in Sig]

I've got A Love Supreme by Coltrane and it is on my utter limit of what I'm prepared to accept but accept it I do. The later stuff is, for me, simply unlistenable.

As for Miles Davies, I really like his contribution to Cannoball Adderley's Somethin' Else album but a lot of stuff of his that I've heard was meaningless noodling to me. I just think he's achieved sacred cow status. The good stuff is undoubtedly very special but he was only human.

 

[srw]

More bonfire instruments:

Electric guitar. Take an inoffensive, if slightly prima-donna-ish acoustic instrument, take out the one thing that distinguishes its sound and pipe the result through cheap amplification. Absolute hell. Actually, while we're about it, electric anything - violin, cello. All equally hideous.

Drum kit. The only instrument where musical talent is a positive hindrance.

Marching band glockenspiel. The sound of the local scout marching drum, bugle and glockenspiel band will haunt me for the rest of my life.

Military bands. Just because.

Andy my rescue-from-the-bonfire list (as well as the cello) starts with the recorder. The most under-appreciated instrument going.

 

[goo_mason]

Andy my rescue-from-the-bonfire list (as well as the cello) starts with the recorder. The most under-appreciated instrument going.

I'll never forget the first time I heard a recorder played by a real musician and being completely blown away (no pun intended) that it could sound so beautiful. It was at a High School concert (where I'd been playing a solo cello piece); a classmate's big sister came on to do a solo recorder piece after me, and I was hooked. Not only did she look like an angel, but she played like one too !

Up until then, I was used to hearing the squeaking, shrill & soul-less tootings of school recorder groups.

 

[theclaud]

a lot of stuff of his that I've heard was meaningless noodling to me.

Precisely - do you think this might be more to do with you, than with the music? I have heard people say similar things about Janacek's Glagolitic Mass. My point is simply that some things speak for themselves, and the pontification about their merits from nobody-in-particular on a chat forum is neither here nor there. With respect, there's Miles Davis, and there's Andy in Sig, and one of them is of little musical consequence - I'll leave you to guess which. I might remind you that if you were in charge you would recently have cost us the Bach cello suites.

 

[Andy in Sig]

But you need people like me to be prepared to shout "Emperor's New Clothes". Otherwise the arts world, which has the unfortunate tendency to attract arty types, would be completely insufferable.

 

[Andy in Sig]

Anyway how do you know I'm not a musical genius? You've never heard me playing my electric guitar. I've even been practicing my scales recently.

 

[theclaud]

But you need people like me to be prepared to shout "Emperor's New Clothes". Otherwise the arts world, which has the unfortunate tendency to attract arty types, would be completely insufferable.

I'm not sure we do. Shouting at fully clothed people telling them they are naked seems like a bit of a waste of time, not to mention a bit unhinged. Some things are as good as they're cracked up to be, you know.