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AndyRM

XOXO
Location
North Shields
Obviously talking mince, but he's probably best off not saying anything while the investigation is ongoing.
 

No Ta Doctor

Veteran
Argentina manager Lionel Scaloni attempted to calm the situation down in his post-match interview.
He said: "We are gracious in victory, and we must be gracious in defeat."

Is this a really bad translation, or does "gracious" mean something absolutely awful in Argentina?
 
What planet is Fernandez on? Trumpian levels of self-awareness here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8jn91e9mdyo
There seems to be a theme here ... EDIT: sorry, I'll try to find a better image, with translation!
Try again:
Screenshot_20260722-104610~2.jpg


... and here's another cracker:

Screenshot_20260722-132603~2.jpg
 
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Back home from a big alpine cycling week.

Thank goodness Argentina didn't steal the final - what a disgrace to football they are.
Not a single shot at goal until the 117th minute of the match. Were they really playing for penalties?
Then utterly graceless in defeat, as they were graceless in victory in the semi final.

Saw a stat that England got a yellow card for every 7 fouls, Argentina a yellow for every 22 fouls!

And a a major arts event, do they put on a sports match during the interval?
I utterly fail to see why we need an artsy event in the middle of a sports match.
 

wakemalcolm

Legendary Member
Location
Ratho
I'll be honest here: I didn't want Spain to win, I just wanted Argentina to lose, and the final won't be remembered by me for much that Spain did in any positive manner, it was overshadowed by a lack of grace from the Argies.
 

PaulSB

Squire
Not really, if the rule is "in excessive and dangerous temperatures, a hydration break is allowed for 90" in the middle of each half" then the rules are literally the same everywhere.

The real difference is that some matches were played at 40C and some at 22.

The hydration break is more an attempt to ameliorate that difference, not an advantage another team doesn't have. And more to the point - the hydration break is the same for both teams playing that match, it's largely irrelevant if another match elsewhere doesn't have one.
I understand your point but feel it ignores how the known result of one game could influence the outcome of another. As far as I'm aware all sports, worldwide, are played under the same set of rules. It seems to me fundamentally unfair if some players/teams are treated differently in the same competition. I suppose the rules could be varied from one competition to another provided there was no relationship between the two competitions. Even this is debatable.

If the rules vary within the competition all sorts of potential difficulties arise. I'll limit this to one possible scenario in the initial WC league stages. A v B is played at 40⁰ with hydration break, while C v D is played at 22⁰, no hydration break. Kick off times are the same. A v B will last six minutes longer than C v D.

Both A and B require only a draw to qualify for the knockout stages. C and D both have the possibility to qualify provided they win and either A or B is defeated. The match between C and D finishes six minutes earlier with a win for one side. At this point A v B is 0-0, a quick phone call tells both managers there teams have qualified at 0 - 0, there is no need to risk defeat and a draw is played out by "cooperation" between the two sides.

Yes, there can be other scenarios in which the games finish at different times but those are all influenced by the same set of rules. I've been at such a game. May 14th 1995 I was at Anfield. Rovers had lost 2 - 1. United were drawing 1 - 1 at Upton Park. The whole world knew Utd must score to become PL champions. Had Utd scored there could be no complaints, if that game took six minutes longer because of hydration breaks and Utd won there would be every reason to complain. Utd drew with WHU and Rovers were champions, had Utd won they would have been champions.

Two different games played under different rules in the same competition simply cannot be allowed.
 
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No Ta Doctor

Veteran
I understand your point. As far as I'm aware all sports, worldwide, are played under the same set of rules. It seems to me fundamentally unfair if some players/teams are treated differently in the same competition. I suppose the rules could be varied from one competition to another provided there was no relationship between the two competitions. Even this is debatable.

If the rules vary within the competition all sorts of potential difficulties arise. I'll limit this to one possible scenario in the initial WC league stages. A v B is played at 40⁰ with hydration break, while C v D is played at 22⁰, no hydration break. Kick off times are the same. A v B will last six minutes longer than C v D.

Both A and B require only a draw to qualify for the knockout stages. C and D both have the possibility to qualify provided they win and either A or B is defeated. The match between C and D finishes six minutes earlier with a win for one side. At this point A v B is 0-0, a quick phone call tells both managers there teams have qualified at 0 - 0, there is no need to risk defeat and a draw is played out by "cooperation" between the two sides.

Yes, there can be other scenarios in which the games finish at different times but those are all influenced by the same set of rules. I've been at such a game. May 14th 1995 I was at Anfield. Rovers had lost 2 - 1. United were drawing 1 - 1 at Upton Park. The whole world knew Utd must score to become PL champions. Had Utd scored there could be no complaints, if that game took six minutes longer because of hydration breaks and Utd won there would be every reason to complain. Utd drew with WHU and Rovers were champions, had Utd won they would have been champions.

Two different games played under different rules in the same competition simply cannot be allowed.

Well if it's that much of a problem, just start the game that requires hydration breaks six minutes earlier than the one that doesn't 🤷‍♂️

You wouldn't pause a different game for any other reason if its parallel game was paused, would you? If a dog runs on a pitch and it takes four minutes to catch it, you wouldn't pause the other game for four minutes. A player needing ten minutes of treatment on the pitch? Delayed start due to turnstile issues or traffic? Betting syndicate unplugged the floodlights in the second half? The referee has ample opportunity to pause or delay a game already, this isn't really any different.

As for your example - if Man U had only needed a draw to become champions it might have worked. The fact they needed a win made it irrevelvant that it finished later. It's not like they would have been given six extra minutes to find a goal if they'd had a hydration break (we'll not get into a discussion of Fergietime here...)

Because what's really not fair is a team that's done the work to get the opposition on the back foot, that's pressing players that are disorganised, whose legs are burning with lactic acid, who are no longer sure if their gameplane is right and if they're making the right decisions, being told to stop playing for three minutes so everyone can have a break when it's only 23C and its absolutely unnecessary. Because so much of football is the attempt to engineer that exact situation. You know that total football stuff the Dutch played in the seventies (that is also foundational for Spanish tiki-taka, through Cruyff bringing some of its ideas to Barca)? Listen to e.g. Cruyff speak about it. Everyone loved it for being free flowing, but tactically it was about using possession of the ball and the technical ability to swap places to engineer numerical advantages on the pitch and make the opposition run more. Total football was essentially about tiring the opposition out by using the ball and switching positions. Four quarters destroys that.
 

PaulSB

Squire
Well if it's that much of a problem, just start the game that requires hydration breaks six minutes earlier than the one that doesn't 🤷‍♂️

You wouldn't pause a different game for any other reason if its parallel game was paused, would you? If a dog runs on a pitch and it takes four minutes to catch it, you wouldn't pause the other game for four minutes. A player needing ten minutes of treatment on the pitch? Delayed start due to turnstile issues or traffic? Betting syndicate unplugged the floodlights in the second half? The referee has ample opportunity to pause or delay a game already, this isn't really any different.

As for your example - if Man U had only needed a draw to become champions it might have worked. The fact they needed a win made it irrevelvant that it finished later. It's not like they would have been given six extra minutes to find a goal if they'd had a hydration break (we'll not get into a discussion of Fergietime here...)

Because what's really not fair is a team that's done the work to get the opposition on the back foot, that's pressing players that are disorganised, whose legs are burning with lactic acid, who are no longer sure if their gameplane is right and if they're making the right decisions, being told to stop playing for three minutes so everyone can have a break when it's only 23C and its absolutely unnecessary. Because so much of football is the attempt to engineer that exact situation. You know that total football stuff the Dutch played in the seventies (that is also foundational for Spanish tiki-taka, through Cruyff bringing some of its ideas to Barca)? Listen to e.g. Cruyff speak about it. Everyone loved it for being free flowing, but tactically it was about using possession of the ball and the technical ability to swap places to engineer numerical advantages on the pitch and make the opposition run more. Total football was essentially about tiring the opposition out by using the ball and switching positions. Four quarters destroys that.
The difficulty with your response is every scenario falls within the rules of the game and apply equally to both matches. Adding a hydration break to one and not the other immediately changes that situation. If one game is delayed for any reason within the same rule set this is acceptable. Extending one game by changing the rules is unfair.

I'm not arguing for or against hydration breaks but I'm arguing for all games to be played under the same set of rules. You're prepared to have two matches played under different rule sets. That is fundamentally unfair.

My example was to demonstrate that the known outcome of one result potentially influences another match. Had Utd needed a draw to become champions they might have chosen to play keep ball. Instead they had no option but to attack potentially leaving themselves wide open to counter attack and defeat.

The Dutch played within the rules, if there were hydration breaks they would have had to play within those rules.
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
Both A and B require only a draw to qualify for the knockout stages. C and D both have the possibility to qualify provided they win and either A or B is defeated. The match between C and D finishes six minutes earlier with a win for one side. At this point A v B is 0-0, a quick phone call tells both managers there teams have qualified at 0 - 0, there is no need to risk defeat and a draw is played out by "cooperation" between the two sides.

There was an instance in 1982 where Germany and Austria played their final game knowing the result of the other one, and knowing that a small win for Germany would put both teams through - it ended 1-0 to Germany with neither team apparently trying to score after Germany got that goal.

It was only after that FIFA instigated the rule that both of the final games in any group are played simultaneously.
 
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