The Football.....

[No Ta Doctor]

Serious question. Would you have thought this last season when the Hammers were threatened with relegation?

My lot, Rovers, have been kicking around in the Championship, with a season in League One, for the last14 years. Do I want us to be promoted? Like every fan I want the excitement of a promotion challenge and perhaps going up. That's in my heart. In my head I know this would be followed by a season of abject misery and all we would achieve would be a barrowload of cash. I'm not sure I want this.

From the mid 80s until +/- 2012 Rovers enjoyed succes many fans never experience. I had 25 years of nearly winning things, winning things, ups, downs, highs, lows, watching outstanding footballers managed by real football men. That's pretty damn good. I've been very lucky.

Yesterday we had a brilliant afternoon fast, attacking football from both sides, no histrionics, no rolling around feigning near death. Proper football and no VAR!!

To be fair, it's not every Premier League match that has VAR. Pretty sure they were on holiday yesterday for our Sunderland game

 

[Dave7]

I'm surprised there are no comments from Utd fans about the wrongly given goal.
Even the pundits couldn't understand either the decision or the explanation.

 

[No Ta Doctor]

I'm surprised there are no comments from Utd fans about the wrongly given goal.
Even the pundits couldn't understand either the decision or the explanation.

As an Arsenal fan I'll happily take that up. Normally I'd laugh my socks off at that happening to Man U after the Ferguson years, but handing out points to Citeh in this day and age is very annoying. The decision itself was absolutely abysmal.

Apparently the logic of the process was this:

1. If he touches the ball then he's played the ball and is objectively offside.
2. If he doesn't touch the ball, then while he was in a clear offside position, the decision of whether he has committed an offside offence is subjective - the judgement of the referee.
3. If the judgement is subjective then there can't be a clear and obvious error.
4. If there isn't a clear and obvious error, then VAR must not overturn the referee's decision or recommend the ref review the incident.

That is absolutely insane. The whole "don't intervene so much" and "only clear and obvious errors" schtick is a rod they've made for their own backs. I mean, it's true we don't want every decision to take hours and hours as they study the minutiae but it's left them in a place where someone getting booted up in the air might have been deemed by the ref "not enough contact" - a subjective ruling - so it has to stand, whereas (seen a couple of seasons back at Liverpool v Arsenal) a full back absolutely cleans out an attacker in the box but gets a slight accidental touch on the ball so VAR overrules the on-field penalty because he "objectively" played the ball.

If we're going to have VAR then it should be used to enable refs, to allow them to have a bit more dialogue in real time - as they might with an assistant ref running the lines, to be able to ask "how well did you see that? we thought it was a bit heavier contact than you'd normally let go / the contact looked minimal, but exaggerated by the player" and let the ref sort it out: "yeah, I saw it fine, I'm giving/not giving anyway" or "I was unsure, thanks, I'll take a look"

 

[No Ta Doctor]

To be fair, it's not every Premier League match that has VAR. Pretty sure they were on holiday yesterday for our Sunderland game

They were definitely back for the Manchester derby, but clearly they'd wanted to squeeze the last pips out of their vacation and had been drinking at the airport and on the plane home, then piled straight into a cab from Heathrow to Stockley Park

 

[Dorset Boy]

Well it evens up the goal awarded following the McGuire handball recently, so tough.

Football really needs to learn from rugby on how to use VAR.

 

[Dave7]

As an Arsenal fan I'll happily take that up. Normally I'd laugh my socks off at that happening to Man U after the Ferguson years, but handing out points to Citeh in this day and age is very annoying. The decision itself was absolutely abysmal.

Apparently the logic of the process was this:

1. If he touches the ball then he's played the ball and is objectively offside.
2. If he doesn't touch the ball, then while he was in a clear offside position, the decision of whether he has committed an offside offence is subjective - the judgement of the referee.
3. If the judgement is subjective then there can't be a clear and obvious error.
4. If there isn't a clear and obvious error, then VAR must not overturn the referee's decision or recommend the ref review the incident.

That is absolutely insane. The whole "don't intervene so much" and "only clear and obvious errors" schtick is a rod they've made for their own backs. I mean, it's true we don't want every decision to take hours and hours as they study the minutiae but it's left them in a place where someone getting booted up in the air might have been deemed by the ref "not enough contact" - a subjective ruling - so it has to stand, whereas (seen a couple of seasons back at Liverpool v Arsenal) a full back absolutely cleans out an attacker in the box but gets a slight accidental touch on the ball so VAR overrules the on-field penalty because he "objectively" played the ball.

If we're going to have VAR then it should be used to enable refs, to allow them to have a bit more dialogue in real time - as they might with an assistant ref running the lines, to be able to ask "how well did you see that? we thought it was a bit heavier contact than you'd normally let go / the contact looked minimal, but exaggerated by the player" and let the ref sort it out: "yeah, I saw it fine, I'm giving/not giving anyway" or "I was unsure, thanks, I'll take a look"

Who was it that said "if he's not interfering with play whats he doing on the pitch"?
I have a feeling it was a Shanklyism but not sure.

 

[No Ta Doctor]

Who was it that said "if he's not interfering with play whats he doing on the pitch"?
I have a feeling it was a Shanklyism but not sure.

I think I've heard it attributed to so many famous managers I've lost track.

 

[Seevio]

Who was it that said "if he's not interfering with play whats he doing on the pitch"?
I have a feeling it was a Shanklyism but not sure.

My google-fu tells me that the Shankly quote is "If a player isn't interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be!" but apparently "If he's not interfering with play, what's he doing on the pitch?" was Bill Nicholson of Tottenham. Then there is also the one I remember which is "If a player is not interfering with play then he shouldn't be on the pitch" from Brian Clough.

Seems to have been a commonly held sentiment amongst managers of a certain period.

 

[Pblakeney]

I'm surprised there are no comments from Utd fans about the wrongly given goal.
Even the pundits couldn't understand either the decision or the explanation.

I think most Utd fans evaporated within a couple of years of Fergie retiring. 😉

 

[No Ta Doctor]

Well it evens up the goal awarded following the McGuire handball recently, so tough.

Football really needs to learn from rugby on how to use VAR.

Personally I doubt the McGuire handball has as much chance to be critical in the title race though.

Incidentally, the key match incidents panel backed the ref on that one, by 4-1

"Maguire's arms are within his bodyline meaning that the contact with his right arm was accidental and not a punishable handball offence given that Maguire was not the goal scorer. The shot was clearly off target and then deflected in via the defender for a clear own goal. The panel supported the referee's call to award the goal, 4:1, with one panellist considering the handball to be deliberate."

I'd have been the 1 in that 4-1, no doubt.

 

[AndyRM]

I think most Utd fans evaporated within a couple of years of Fergie retiring. 😉

The best thing Fergie could do for Man Utd is evaporate away from the club. He may not have any official influence, but I can't see how his continued presence is a positive thing (a view shared by my good lady and her two Man U pals (although one of them is an idiot who seems to get his opinions about football from Match)).

 

[AndyRM]

Will Kilmarnock ever win a penalty shootout again?

View attachment 821534

I found the penalties.

It's hard to know which one is worst.


View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DdQ-zXDE_iw/?stkn=MWV2Y3VvZG8zNHplNg==

 

[Vapin' Joe]

The best thing Fergie could do for Man Utd is evaporate away from the club. He may not have any official influence, but I can't see how his presence is a continued thing (a view shared by my good lady and her two Man U pals (although one of them is an idiot who seems to get his opinions about football from Match)).

Clubs have in the past been slated for breaking contact with successful managers and not welcoming them at matches after they left (Shankley, Nicholson for example), but you can see the sound reasoning behind it. Imagine how Moyes must have felt when he took over and had Fergies eyes on him from the stand. No new boss wants the old one peering over his shoulder all day.

As you say, it should have been "Thanks, now goodbye and close the door behind you.

 

[No Ta Doctor]

Clubs have in the past been slated for breaking contact with successful managers and not welcoming them at matches after they left (Shankley, Nicholson for example), but you can see the sound reasoning behind it. Imagine how Moyes must have felt when he took over and had Fergies eyes on him from the stand. No new boss wants the old one peering over his shoulder all day.

As you say, it should have been "Thanks, now goodbye and close the door behind you.

Agree - the "moving upstairs" thing has always been a bad move I think, was pleased Wenger didn't go that route for us, but would be even more pleased if he could stop saying daft stuff for FIFA

 

[PaulSB]

Who was it that said "if he's not interfering with play whats he doing on the pitch"?
I have a feeling it was a Shanklyism but not sure.

I always believed it was Shankly.