The keep back hand signal

[wesa]

I have never been a fan of the 'keep back' hand signal. I don't wave drivers past so it seems to make sense that I shouldn't tell them when to stay back.

However I saw the signal used (for the first time) today and I think I am changing my opinion.

I was driving (tar & feather me later but I did have 2 little ones with me, and I do regularly cycle the route when I can) down a steep twisting hill. The road is wide enough for two cars to pass at a crawl. On one tight left hand (for me) bend I saw a group of cyclists coming towards me, given the road width I slowed to <20mph (required for the bend anyway) then one of the guys towards the back of the group started waving keep back to an unseen vehicle. I stamped on the brakes and was confronted by a car on the wong side of the road on a blind bend who had no option but to stop nose to nose with me, wait for the bikes to clear and pull in behind them. Tumbs up to and from the cyclist.

As an aside to the cyclists. let's assume that you held up the driver for a whole minute, I wouldn't worry about it as there was a big fuel tanker about 600m ahead who was realy struggling up the hill and he wasn't even at the steepest part yet. The driver will have spent far longer behind him than behind you.

So my question is this; having seen the 'keep back' signal used to good effect (even if not the intended effect), should I become a hypocrite and start using this signal, I am not going to start waving drivers past.

 

[Tigerbiten]

My take on this is ..........

If you tell drivers to wait behind with a hand signal, then you should also tell them when its safe to pass as well.

On my recumbent trike and I've got traffic behind, I tend to wave cars past if I think its safe, then give them a wave as a thank you for waiting.
But I also tend not to use a wait signal unless its critical as then I think it puts the onus on me to wave them past.

The other thing I do, is give lorries/artics a thumbs up as to when its safe to pull back it.

 

[downfader]

Wesa, it depends on if YOU feel its appropriate. Obviously the rider here saw a hazard ahead and tried to warn a driver, and also s/he's got other people to look out for too so cant just take an avoidance move.

I've done it myself along with a "not yet!" or "2 seconds!" shouted out at pinch points or bends. It can be a lifesaver.

EDIT: forot to say. Yeah on waving drivers past... its ALWAYs down to the overtaker to establish if it is safe to do so. I will only do it if I can pull off the road (for example I've done it into a headwind on a steep hill, pulled over, waved drivers past and thanked them). Its one of those things where you have to be ABSOLUTELY sure about.

 

[gaz]

I use it on one part of my commute everyday.
Here (obviously the other way round but this is the best picture.) the pinch point is very tight and cars are often going 40mph even though it's a 30. I have to take control of the lane and with heavy traffic flow i am forced to make some cars wait. I try to slot in when i can but sometimes it's not possible. I've yet to have any agro as i always indicate that i'm coming out and when going back in and gave a wave or a thumbs up.

 

[thomas]

You don't need to tell drivers when it is safe to pass, however, if someone is going to pass dangerously then warning them to stop, or others is advisable assuming you can do it safely.

If you were in your car and someone was doing something dangerous you may honk, it's quite similar and there is no need to do the opposite.

I do use the wait signal now and again, but would only very, very rarely use the overtake signal. I would never use it on a club run and it is a pet hate when people do (especially, when they normally do it at the most inappropriate time...and end up doing the wait signal). I may use it if letting a car past on a country lane, just to show my intentions to them.

 

[Spinney]

I did it recently on a narrow country road with a car behind about to overtake me. On my bike I could see further over the brow of the little hill in the road, and saw another car coming the other way, so I did the keep back wave to stop the overtake.
Got a wave of thanks off the driver behind when he did finally over take me.

I think it's fine in that situation.

 

[Jaguar]

You don't need to tell drivers when it is safe to pass

No, but if you do it is appreciated (sometimes). For example, on our twisty turny Norfolk back roads (high hedges/crops) I will wave someone past me if I can see the road ahead is clear.
I also do it if I can feel someone on my tail, hesitating to overtake, not sure if I will wobble or not.

I don't often get thanked, but I still do it. I also thank drivers who wait patiently behind me. It's just nice isn't it.

 

[Arch]

The one time I use a 'keep back' signal is if I'm approaching a junction and can hear an emergency vehicle siren. At that point, I'm not going to enter the junction until I'm quite sure where that siren is coming from, and I'd like to stop any car behind me doing so as well.

Watching drivers in queues react, it's clear than an unhindered cyclist (IE, no earphones) will hear a siren way before most drivers. In fact on the rare occasions I have the earphones in in traffic (or if I'm wearing them as a ped), I think I'm still aware of a siren before more drivers.

 

[661-Pete]

I'll certainly use a 'come on' wave where it makes sense, like on one of the really narrow single-track-and-passing-places lanes we have in Sussex. Like here, for instance.

This morning, somewhere along here, I pulled over into a passing place to let an oncoming car pass - the lane is so narrow that even a car and a bike cannot pass comfortably. Another following car had pulled into the same passing place behind me, and it made sense to wave him on before me. On that sort of lane most motorists are going pretty slowly, but I'm even slower ...

 

[jig-sore]

I did it recently on a narrow country road with a car behind about to overtake me. On my bike I could see further over the brow of the little hill in the road, and saw another car coming the other way, so I did the keep back wave to stop the overtake.
Got a wave of thanks off the driver behind when he did finally over take me.

I think it's fine in that situation.

exactly. sometimes you can also see further around a blind corner. done this many times.

waving people past doesn't mean you spend your whole ride doing windmill impressions, but there are times when drivers will wait behind you cos they cant see if its safe. if you can see that its safe for them to pass, why not wave them through.


dont forget, if you ride the same route at the same time each day you are going to meet the same people, so be nice

 

[Fab Foodie]

Err... forgive my ignorance but how is this signal made?

 

[thomas]

No, but if you do it is appreciated (sometimes). For example, on our twisty turny Norfolk back roads (high hedges/crops) I will wave someone past me if I can see the road ahead is clear.
I also do it if I can feel someone on my tail, hesitating to overtake, not sure if I will wobble or not.

I don't often get thanked, but I still do it. I also thank drivers who wait patiently behind me. It's just nice isn't it.

Read my last sentence ...I do normally get thanks in those situations. Had a (I think chav..judging by the modification to the car), stick his hand out the sun roof to say thanks, which was nice.

On some of the lanes around here I may. Generally if I am slowing over to let someone past...or if on any type of road, and it is safe for the car behind to overtake and they are hesitating. This can worry me that they won't overtake, until it becomes unsafe, so I'd rather give them the reassurance that I'm not going to do something stupid.

Most of the time however, if you start waving everyone past you just look like a raving idiot. And as I said, don't do it in a club, as not everyone will like it. Certainly, someone in my club back home seems to spend more time trying to wave people past than he does focusing on where he's going. I find it very, very off putting. Especially as he seems to wave people past at the most stupid of locations.

It's really a case of personal preference. I'd say don't do it all the time, but now and again it does have its use.

You've got to remember that if you wave and something happens you will get blamed by the driver. There are lots of factors that we can't judge from our bikes. Perhaps the car behind is really slow and wouldn't get past in the same sort of gaps...or a [motor]cyclist is overtaking cars and you wave someone past and they hit the [motor]cyclist...etc.

Where as if someone is going to do something that endangers you, then making a signal is sensible.

Always best to let people make independent decisions, as much as possible.

Err... forgive my ignorance but how is this signal made?

Put your hand out behind you in a stop gesture.

 

[nasserblue]

Err... forgive my ignorance but how is this signal made?

Open palm of the hand towards the driver. I use it a lot at high speed/large junctions (Hyde Park Corner, Shephards Bush...) when I need to turn right, and want to get into/across a row of quickly moving cars. All the drivers I've used it on seem happy to let me have the lane, and once the junction is negotiated they overtake without issue.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Err... forgive my ignorance but how is this signal made?

Quick burst of rounds from an AK-47.

I occasionally use the 'hold back' signal, but generally find that strategic road-positioning works well on the trike (which has the advantage of width) or a tactical wobble on a two-wheel bike (I'm used to saying 'the Brommie', but these days I'm actually doing more two-wheeled cycling on Boris Bikes).

 

[jimboalee]

Open palm of the hand towards the driver. I use it a lot at high speed/large junctions (Hyde Park Corner, Shephards Bush...) when I need to turn right, and want to get into/across a row of quickly moving cars. All the drivers I've used it on seem happy to let me have the lane, and once the junction is negotiated they overtake without issue.

So its a Policeman's 'Stop' hand signal.


Incidentally, NEVER make any signals that indicate to another road user their intended manouver is safe to do.