The 'N' word in the film 'Dambusters'.

[3narf]

I'm more offended by the fact they remade the film at all! If they hadn't, it wouldn't be an issue.

Same with The Dukes of Hazard - no confederate flag on the General Lee...

It's like pulling down the statue of Lenin in Red Square after Russia adopted 'democracy.' Let's all pretend the past never happened.

BTW I used to fix Tornados on 617 Squadron in the mid-'80s...

 

[davefb]

Watching Reservoir Dogs last night, they used the N word a fair bit, in a not so positive context.

Was there an N word debate when that was released?

correct me if i'm wrong, but arent those people merciless murderers ready to shoot people in the pursuit of money.. in which case the use of that word would be 'in character'.

fair enough you could argue that gibson et al should have never dropped any bombs and been concientious objectors. but that isnt the issue here, the issue is that its a small change to 'reality' that we should be able to deal with.
of course, assuming that gibson wasn't really a racist he just used a word that with hindsight people shouldnt have used ( it was already questionable, just that people didnt question it enough).
we already quite happily cope with films about the past spoken in our english ( or perhaps the wierd 'old sounding' language that sort of copes) so i just find it surprising that people somehow feel its' the 'end of the world' when an utterly offensive word isn't used in a film.

tbh its like a cross between the daily mail 'pc gorn maaad' and a schoolroom giggling at the rude word...

 

[Over The Hill]

I feel that all films are made in the context of the age they are made in just as much as the era they are set in.

Older films are just accepted to have no swearing or sex in them and to use the vocabulary of the day.


With regard the dog in the OP. Call it, its actual name and you introduce another dimension to the thing that was never there. Call it a different name and its name is no issue (as per the original at the time).

Same with girls called Fanny, you just would not be able to use the name without baggage.

 

[subaqua]

maybe they could get Elvis Costello to play an airman and he could sing Olivers Army.

as Vernon says, its the intent it was delivered and received.

 

[theclaud]

Tim Bennet summed it up in the short-lived thread on P&L. From the point of view of the film-maker/writer there's a decision to be made - the idea that leaving the dog's name as "Nigger" is some kind of neutral option is absurd - almost as absurd as the idea that either film is primarily some kind of historical record. I'm not very interested in the remake, as my guess is that Fry's particular intervention is primarily a kind of liberal updating/reclamation of the film's feelgood patriotism, for a different historical moment. A reminder that the hero's pet's name is informed by a casual racism that was once entirely normalized wouldn't really help the function. The other options are pretending (or wishing?) that it is were still 1955 and that few people will have any particular reaction to a dog called "Nigger", which is both stupid and insulting, or making a more radical film which deconstructs the original and makes the racism visible and overt, which is, politically, a much more interesting approach, but could still make a lousy movie...

 

[davefb]

Tim Bennet summed it up in the short-lived thread on P&L. From the point of view of the film-maker/writer there's a decision to be made - the idea that leaving the dog's name as "Nigger" is some kind of neutral option is absurd - almost as absurd as the idea that either film is primarily some kind of historical record. I'm not very interested in the remake, as my guess is that Fry's particular intervention is primarily a kind of liberal updating/reclamation of the film's feelgood patriotism, for a different historical moment. A reminder that the hero's pet's name is informed by a casual racism that was once entirely normalized wouldn't really help the function. The other options are pretending (or wishing?) that it is were still 1955 and that few people will have any particular reaction to a dog called "Nigger", which is both stupid and insulting, or making a more radical film which deconstructs the original and makes the racism visible and overt, which is, politically, a much more interesting approach, but could still make a lousy movie...

+1

though was intrigued by reading up on wiki, that the way the dog was used was to essentially break the stiff upper lip of the main heros'. that behind that insane bravado there were people after all... but whilst they can 'cope' with the deaths around em, they can't the death of the dog....

woah spooky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger_(dog)#Animal_wrangling

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Why wasn't the word used in full in the thread title?

 

[theclaud]

Why wasn't the word used in full in the thread title?

Looks like PaulB kowtowed to demands from above. I can't see how he can have any credibility left.

 

[dellzeqq]

http://vodpod.com/wa...ople-say-nigger- for the last word

the best line is right at the end of the clip

 

[asterix]

Have decided they should leave it in. It is only a word derived from the adjective for black and has no derogatory meaning in itself. The problem lies in the minds of racists and was not Gibson, the dog's owner on a bombing mission against some of the worst racists in history?

That the dog cannot be called Nigger conceivably because of rednecks in the Southern USA is capitulation to racism.

 

[PaulB]

Looks like PaulB kowtowed to demands from above. I can't see how he can have any credibility left.

Behave. I personally refuse to use that word.

If it's okay to replace the vernacular of the time, I assume we'll have the pilots in this film referring to women as 'hos' and high-fiving each other coming out with 'fo sho' and stuff like that. Maybe we should get Armstrong and Miller to write the script?

 

[theclaud]

Behave. I personally refuse to use that word.

If it's okay to replace the vernacular of the time, I assume we'll have the pilots in this film referring to women as 'hos' and high-fiving each other coming out with 'fo sho' and stuff like that. Maybe we should get Armstrong and Miller to write the script?

It would probably be better that way...

 

[Yellow Fang]

I've got an idea. Guy Gibson called his dog Nigger because it was a black labrador. So, either call it Trigger and make it a gun dog, or Digger and make it a terrier. Digger might be better because the Morse code for D is only one dot less than for N.

Actually, the idea of Stephen Fry rewriting the script fills me with foreboding. No doubt it would be about the senseless waste of the air crews and the deaths of east European factory workers. They should just tart up the old film by replacing the ropey special effects and getting Harry Enfield to dub over the dog's name.

 

[Over The Hill]

Have decided they should leave it in. It is only a word derived from the adjective for black and has no derogatory meaning in itself. The problem lies in the minds of racists and was not Gibson, the dog's owner on a bombing mission against some of the worst racists in history?

That the dog cannot be called Nigger conceivably because of rednecks in the Southern USA is capitulation to racism.

No the word cannot simply stand alone as an adjective for black. (In that form it is actually a dark brown colour)

The term comes from its use as a derogatory term but when it was used it was either not considered derogatory or the victims/subjects of the remark's views were not considered.

 

[PaulB]

It would probably be better that way...

They have good credenzas


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwNQf08Kxsw