The new improved Lance Armstrong discussion thread.*

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yello

Guest

A good read that.You can appreciate the pressures, and the difficult decisions.

A question I've always asked myself about the mindset of a doper is the 'what if' scenario. Do they ever think about how good they might have been without doping? Greg touches on that...

At about 19 years old I made a choice … I would not dope … I wanted to see how far I could go in cycling, despite the odds I knew were before me; and enter the world of professional European cycling.

David Millar's book highlights how easy it is to find yourself lost and making choices you feel pressured to make. Ultimately, it's no excuse though there's a context to understand.

And then of course there are those that just decide to cheat.
 

Smokin Joe

Legendary Member
Caption Competition?

lance3epa_1208379c.jpg
"Yep, it's definately a dead twin".
 

EltonFrog

Legendary Member
I'm very new to cycle racing, watches my first TdF this year, so by no means qualified to make a statement, but I do have question based on what I understand of the events all those years ago.

If they were all at it, then we're they not racing on a level playing field? If so did this not make the taking of drugs redundant?
 
I'm very new to cycle racing, watches my first TdF this year, so by no means qualified to make a statement, but I do have question based on what I understand of the events all those years ago.

If they were all at it, then we're they not racing on a level playing field? If so did this not make the taking of drugs redundant?
The quick answer is no it doesn't. Different people respond to drugs in different ways, different drugs have different effects, who has the best drugs, can afford the best doctor and the most comprehensive 'program', wins. It's far from equal.

The full answer is probably contained in the closed thread and the links that people have put up.
 
I'm very new to cycle racing, watches my first TdF this year, so by no means qualified to make a statement, but I do have question based on what I understand of the events all those years ago.

If they were all at it, then we're they not racing on a level playing field? If so did this not make the taking of drugs redundant?
Ok, simple answer is no. The so-called 'level-playing field' is a myth, or a convenient lie that can be used by dopers and their apologists to excuse cheating.

Not everyone was doping - do some Google research on Jonathan Vaughters and his time with Credite Agricole. They were a well known team during this period (sadly they folded a few years ago) and the team management were vehemently anti-doping. Also, Google Christophe Bassons and David Moncoutie, two well known non-dopers. So, simply put, they were not all doing it and those who chose to ride clean were disadvantaged.

Secondly, not everyone responds the same to doping. 'Lesser' riders, eg those with a lower Hct score (Google is your friend) stood to gain a great deal from doping with EPO. Riders with a naturally high Hct score gained very little. Universal doping would not provide a level playing field with everyone gaining, say, 15% on their natural base performance.

Thirdly, not everyone could afford the best doctors and doping program. Apparently Dr Ferrari (the best doping expert) would charge a small fortune and is alleged to have had an exclusive deal with Armstrong and USPS. So, if you were a less well off rider, on a smaller team, you made do with who and what you could afford. Doping was very expensive. Again, not a level field.

...and fourthly, apparently some riders and teams (LA/USPS) were protected by the UCI, so even if they turned up positive, the positive would be made to go away. Not a level playing field at all.

I hope that helps. There is a lot of info on the internet, in fact if you read through the (locked) thread on here you'll pick up a lot of stuff.
 
OP
OP
mickle

mickle

innit
I'm very new to cycle racing, watches my first TdF this year, so by no means qualified to make a statement, but I do have question based on what I understand of the events all those years ago.

If they were all at it, then we're they not racing on a level playing field? If so did this not make the taking of drugs redundant?

This has been raised as a defence by some Lance fans. But the unalterable fact is that performance enhancing drugs are illegal in UCI sanctioned cycle sport. And the use of PEDs impacts heavily on those athletes who, for reasons of ethics or personal health choose not to dope.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
I'm very new to cycle racing, watches my first TdF this year, so by no means qualified to make a statement, but I do have question based on what I understand of the events all those years ago.

If they were all at it, then we're they not racing on a level playing field? If so did this not make the taking of drugs redundant?
No offence Carl but go and read the 'Lance Armstrong banned' locked thread and come back to us in a week or two!:smile:
 

asterix

Comrade Member
Location
Limoges or York
I'm very new to cycle racing, watches my first TdF this year, so by no means qualified to make a statement, but I do have question based on what I understand of the events all those years ago.

If they were all at it, then we're they not racing on a level playing field? If so did this not make the taking of drugs redundant?

You didn't notice the hills then?
 
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