Themself?

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swee'pea99

Squire
"will the person who reserved the Oxford English Dictionary please make themselves known to the head librarian"
It is a quirk of the language. That does sound right, yet if you turned it into a direct instruction: 'Will whoever reserved the Oxford English Dictionary please make yourselves known to the head librarian' sounds wrong. You'd use 'yourself'.
 
Maybe your librarians put too much faith in their spell checker?
Or maybe they opened said dictionary and read "The form is not widely accepted in standard English," before making that announcement?

And maybe they should take a name when someone reserves a book.
I'm sorry that my examples are not carefully curated enough for you to suspend your disbelief. Would it help if I gave background story of all the characters, to flesh out the reality and make the story come alive? </sarcasm>

It is a quirk of the language. That does sound right, yet if you turned it into a direct instruction: 'Will whoever reserved the Oxford English Dictionary please make yourselves known to the head librarian' sounds wrong. You'd use 'yourself'.
Yes, because "yourself" is an English word, in common usage. Themself is arguably not an English word, and most certainly not in common usage.
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The bottom line is we need gender neutral singular pronouns. I guess we'll keep trying different ones until something sticks. It may indeed include "themself"
 

robjh

Legendary Member
.....Themself is arguably not an English word, and most certainly not in common usage.
'Themself' exists, it's English, and I can't think of any definition by which it's anything other than a word. However, as you allude to, it is limited to informal registers and much less common than 'themselves', even with a singular reference, as your example illustrates
"will the person who reserved the Oxford English Dictionary please make themselves known to the head librarian"
In fact, it is so rare and informal that written examples are not that easy to come by, though a quick trawl through google throws up a few, eg. '10 Internal Arguments That Every Londoner Has Had With Themself'.

The bottom line is we need gender neutral singular pronouns. I guess we'll keep trying different ones until something sticks. It may indeed include "themself"
No need. English has coped quite happily for centuries with unknown gender, and indeed any reference to an unknown or indefinite person, through use of singular they. The difficulty that some people have with accepting this (and I'm not aiming that at you) constantly baffles me.
 

KneesUp

Guru
Am I strange then in thinking that 'themself' sounds both normal and correct?

(But then again I'm still trying to work out the difference between 'sex' and 'gender' in this context.)

I try not to tell facebook more than I have to. So my date of birth is more than 10 years wrong** and I've never told them my sex or gender.
 
What language do you think it is then?
Tralfamadorian
 
Am I strange then in thinking that 'themself' sounds both normal and correct?
No, not everyone has a problem with it.

(But then again I'm still trying to work out the difference between 'sex' and 'gender' in this context.)
Yeah, they are different. I'm still working through that, though.

It's complicated. You might find reading up on sworn virgins enlightening.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
In fact, it is so rare and informal that written examples are not that easy to come by, though a quick trawl through google throws up a few, eg. '10 Internal Arguments That Every Londoner Has Had With Themself'.
I wouldn't call this use informal...
upload_2017-6-6_23-8-22.png

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...-fAggQuwUISTAF#v=onepage&q="themself"&f=false

Or for something more contemporary, and equal academic, how about An Introductory Grammar of Rabbinic Hebrew?
upload_2017-6-6_23-10-49.png

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...OTDkEQ6AEIOzAE#v=onepage&q="themself"&f=false
 

Shut Up Legs

Down Under Member
Maybe your librarians put too much faith in their spell checker?

And maybe they should take a name when someone reserves a book.
If librarians these days are relying on spellcheckers, then the English language is doomed (or at least will change a great deal and very quickly).
 

robjh

Legendary Member
True, true, but I was trying to limit myself to contemporary English - I don't think the OP lives in the 17th century!
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
[QUOTE 4832276, member: 259"]God help us all if the future of the English language is in the hands of librarians![/QUOTE]
Oook.
 
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