There are no safe levels of Alcohol consumption ....

[Wafer]

You think they've provided useful advice to help people make a judgment about how much alcohol to drink?

 

[swee'pea99]

The whole thing has been orchestrated by wonks in the background grappling with the ever-mushrooming costs of the NHS, who are softening up the populace for the ultimate objective: the introduction of healthcare-rationing based on lifestyle choices.

 

[subaqua]

you mean you all tell the docs exactly what you drink ?

wow , honest bunch .

 

[swansonj]

When they're saying there is no safe amount of alcohol the implication is that you shouldn't drink any.

If that's the message you came away with (and, as TMN says, it's the wrong message), it's yet another reminder of how difficult risk communication is. Because the actual proposed guidelines are absolutely clear: the guideline keeps health risks to a low level, 1% fatality risk over a lifetime, and there is absolutely nothing I've seen suggesting that "you shouldn't drink any". Yet, however clearly crafted, by the time it reached you the guidance had apparently turned into something different.

 

[nickyboy]

If that's the message you came away with (and, as TMN says, it's the wrong message), it's yet another reminder of how difficult risk communication is. Because the actual proposed guidelines are absolutely clear: the guideline keeps health risks to a low level, 1% fatality risk over a lifetime, and there is absolutely nothing I've seen suggesting that "you shouldn't drink any". Yet, however clearly crafted, by the time it reached you the guidance had apparently turned into something different.

Correct. I personally really appreciate a factual, evidence-based assessment of risk. To be told that if I drink X units per week my risk of certain serious illnesses is a%,b%,c%......but if my consumption was Y units per week my risk would be d%,e%,f%. That's exactly the information I need to make informed lifestyle choices.

Based on the information I can choose what lifestyle to adopt. Nobody's telling me to drink no alcohol, nobody's bringing back prohibition. Just information on which, as an adult, I can make an informed choice.

 

[Wafer]

I think the underlying tone is very much trying to say don't drink without actually saying don't drink.
Looking at something like http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/01January/Pages/New-alcohol-advice-issued.aspx with quotes like

we can no longer say that there is such a thing as a "safe" level of drinking. There is only a "low risk" level of drinking.

The language used doesn't feel like an attempt to inform the reader of the risks and let them decide, it feels more like it's saying "you shouldn't drink, but if you're going to, keep it really low".

And that's all assuming this research is even correct... If it's overplaying the negative effects and hiding the positive effects (as the criticism suggests) then it's all just false and doesn't matter if they are recommend no drinking or low levels of drinking.

 

[nickyboy]

It still can't be your personal risk though.

Correct....there are repercussions elsewhere in society as a result of the risks I choose to take.

That's what government policy and legislation is for. When we the people (represented by our government) decide that the risks being taken by individuals have too great an impact on our society we should firstly adopt a policy of education. If that fails, legislate

 

[swansonj]

I think the underlying tone is very much trying to say don't drink without actually saying don't drink.
Looking at something like http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/01January/Pages/New-alcohol-advice-issued.aspx with quotes like


The language used doesn't feel like an attempt to inform the reader of the risks and let them decide, it feels more like it's saying "you shouldn't drink, but if you're going to, keep it really low".

I'm sorry, I disagree. The actual guidance is:

On regular drinking
New weekly guideline
[this applies for people who drink regularly or frequently i.e. most weeks].
The Chief Medical Officers’ guideline for both men and women is that:
• You are safest not to drink regularly more than 14 units per week, to keep health risks from drinking alcohol to a low level.
• If you do drink as much as 14 units per week, it is best to spread this evenly over 3 days or more. If you have one or two heavy drinking sessions, you increase your risks of death from long term illnesses and from accidents and injuries.
• The risk of developing a range of illnesses (including, for example, cancers of the mouth, throat and breast) increases with any amount you drink on a regular basis.
• If you wish to cut down the amount you’re drinking, a good way to help achieve this is to have several drink-free days each week.

I recognise that the perception of meaning is subjective, but I really don't see any implication there that they are really recommending zero consumption.

 

[Wafer]

OK, OK, lets go with the opinion that they aren't actually recommending zero drinking.

Is the research actually correct? That's more what I'm interested in.

 

[Arrowfoot]

Correct. I personally really appreciate a factual, evidence-based assessment of risk. To be told that if I drink X units per week my risk of certain serious illnesses is a%,b%,c%......but if my consumption was Y units per week my risk would be d%,e%,f%. That's exactly the information I need to make informed lifestyle choices.

Based on the information I can choose what lifestyle to adopt. Nobody's telling me to drink no alcohol, nobody's bringing back prohibition. Just information on which, as an adult, I can make an informed choice.

I am not advocating prohibition of any sort but there is some people that are more prone to alcohol related diseases than others. Liver cirrhosis occasionally hits folks who are less than average drinkers and they are totally shocked when told. Most evidence is based on the mean and the average but seldom the exception. One can never tell who is also susceptible to alcoholism. Alcohol is one exceptional item that seem to defy general studies and any form of risk assessment and is not going to help when you are the exception.

I know of folks who are in their 40s and 50s who restrict themselves to the occasional tipple and have stopped the daily and weekly consumption that they used purely as a health choice.

 

[swansonj]

OK, OK, lets go with the opinion that they aren't actually recommending zero drinking.

Is the research actually correct? That's more what I'm interested in.

Can't help much there I'm afraid. Whilst risk communication is, allegedly, one of my specialist subjects (hence my interest in the language and the messages, however unintended, that the language conveys), I am not familiar with the alcohol health literature.

 

[Wafer]

Can't help much there I'm afraid. Whilst risk communication is, allegedly, one of my specialist subjects (hence my interest in the language and the messages, however unintended, that the language conveys), I am not familiar with the alcohol health literature.

And it's a slightly rhetorical question in that I don't really expect anyone here to be able to say categorically that it is or isn't accurate, just don't want to be debating about what a piece of text does or doesn't say (may as well start a bible study group for that) when my issue is whether the research, or at least the analysis and conclusions drawn from the research is right.

I've come across the term 'pseudo-debunking' today, which offers a lovely balance to the concept of pseudo science. Knowing which sciency sounding version of the 'truth' to believe feels nigh on impossible without spending a lot of time researching and learning about it yourself....

 

[Flick of the Elbow]

Has anyone calculated the cost of following all their advice and living to a ripe old age ? My parents didn't drink, didn't smoke, led active lives and maintained healthy weights. They are still with us at 92 and 86, veritable role models for the benefits of healthy living. Trouble is, they are costing the NHS an absolute fortune, between them they average about 5 medical appointments a week, and have done for probably the last 5 years. I do sometimes wonder if it would be cheaper for the state to step back and not push the health messages.

 

[Ian H]

Hic!

 

[gordyfinbar]

Haven't had a drink for 16 years . I would rather spend my time and money elsewhere . If anyone wants my 14 units a week let me know