Thinking of a folder

[HobbesOnTour]

So..... it's that time. A brain worm has been wiggling away for a while and it's starting to become serious. I'm living in a whole new country, living a whole new life and my priorities are changing.

I've toured and commuted on my trusty Trek hardtail and Roccado has recently been upgraded to an 8 Speed drivetrain but he's not the most practical for my new lifestyle. He's being carried up and down stairs daily, locked outside of work for long stretches, exposed to the elements and while Spanish trains are great for taking bikes on, the area where I live is pretty sparsely populated and the options of taking a full bike on the train are limited. Hell, trains are limited! However, with a folder the limitations are a whole lot less.
My Easter Escapade was a weather washout (Top Touring Tip: Always check the weather forecast before you leave ) and only my most pathetic face was able to persuade a lady to let us on her train and avoid either a night in a(nother) waterlogged campground or a brutal ride-into-the-face-of-a-storm adventure the next day.

This bike will be a genuine 'do everything' bike. A commuter with panniers. A shopper. A socialiser. And the bike to ferry me around on short and long camping trips. It'll go on paved roads and streets but I'm not willing to give up my more adventurous surfaces. Just as well because there's lots of gravel in these parts. And it has to be climbing friendly. Has. To. Be. Climbing. Friendly.

That last thing seems to be the issue with most folding bikes - gearing. I've read of people upgrading their gearing, for instance by combining a hub gear with a derailleur setup but I am not mechanically minded. At all. I like things to be simple and repeatable.

My thought process is something like this:
Bike has to be able to use full size panniers.
Gearing should be appropriate for loaded touring in hilly places
Folding should be practical enough to be done daily, including the rear rack
I'm thinking disc brakes over v brakes based on the assumption that wheels will last longer.
I'm aware that hub gearing is recommended because on folders the rear derailleur is very close to the ground - but that comes at a cost when climbing or fixing punctures on the roadside.

I'm not considering a Brompton at all. They are too dependent on Brompton components. They strike me as complicated. And readily identifiable, therefore targets. Their big advantage is folding size but that's not critical for me. Smallest is not important. Small enough is.

A Tern Node is interesting because of the larger wheels (folded it will be accommodated on all trains here) but gearing is less than desirable. I've read that the frame has a mount to attach a front derailleur so there may be options. However, Tern will only honour a guarantee if the bike is only used on paved roads. That doesn't make me feel good. It has a rear rack, and options to the front as well. It is an attractive option if the gearing can be made more hill friendly.

The dream is a Bike Friday New World Tourist with a double chainring on the front (a triple is also possible), 9 speed cassette and lots of cargo options. Very much not cheap, a severe lack of dealers local to me (Belgium, Germany & Paris are the closest) but I've read of one doing this road so I know what it can do. (With a trailer!) That's important.
For some strange reason Bike Friday have never been able to ship a bike to Spain - apparently there is some customs issue. I'm checking to see if it's easier to ship to another EU country and from there to me - it could save a lot or maybe they're just trying to support their dealers.

I am not used to spending this kind of money on a bike - Roccado cost me €200 (and that was too much!) but I am looking at this as a lifetime purchase. (There are dreams of overnight trains to foreign places involved.) Therefore, the cost & ease of replacing components is a factor. The more customised, the more specialist the less attractive they are.

I thought I'd post this in case I'm missing anything obvious and maybe to encourage anyone with one of these bikes to chime in.

Or if anyone knows someone with a used New World Tourist....

Gracias

 

[Cycleops]

Not a New World tourist but a Tikit I think is with a Nexus 8 speed, disc brakes, dynamo, is on sale in the classifieds by me at a very reasonable price. It's even packed and boxed ready to be shipped, (from UK). Let down by a CC buyer in Germany who just disappeared So if you fancy dipping your toe in the water for minimal cost...



Excellent condition, just needs new tyres.
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/bike-friday-tikit-folder-for-sale-in-sheffield.294664/

 

[Cathryn]

No real knowledge or wisdom to share but I think a folder would be SUPERB!!

 

[Low Gear Guy]

Birdy?

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Not a New World tourist but a Tikit

Thanks, but there's the recall issue which remains unaddressed in your thread.

Birdy?

What are your thoughts?
Suspension makes me think of maintenance - specialist maintenance.

 

[Low Gear Guy]

It hasn't needed any maintenance on the suspension yet. It is only a metal spring on the front and a rubber insert on the rear I.e. a single piece. There are some additional joints due to the folding mechanism but all folding bikes have some version of these.

That is a pair of small panniers (2 x 10 litres) on the rear plus a bag on the top of the rack. It should be possible to fit another pair of panniers on the front.

 

[EltonFrog]

Get a Folding Raleigh 20, you can get one for a tenner, put panniers in the back, they’re uncool, so no one will nick it, they’re feckin heavy, so it’ll keep you fit, they don’t fall apart ‘cos they are built with scaffolding tubes, hub gears that’ll never let you down.
Sorted, bosh, Tuesday.

 

[Richard Fairhurst]

I've messaged Hobbes separately about a particular Bike Friday for sale, but thought I'd jot down a few more general thoughts on the bike.

I have a New World Tourist and it's exactly as he suggests - a really flexible bike which you can equally use for long tours or just for zipping round town. Not having to book to take it on trains (or ferries) is a massive plus: I rode the Seine on it in 2022 and the lower Rhine on it in 2023, and in both cases I could just bundle it into a bag and go. It's plenty comfortable for 60 miles a day. But it works fine for everyday rides too - if I'm going into town to pick up Junior from school, this is the bike I take.

The fold is ungainly but small enough to keep train guards happy. You wouldn't buy an NWT for a daily commute but it's fine for semi-regular train trips. I wouldn't bring it into a cafe though or keep it by my desk a la Brompton: I just lock it up outside like a normal bike.

The gearing on mine is rather eccentric - nine-speed with a single 56T up front. Add some decent tyres (in my case a pair of Marathon Supremes) and it really does ride like a "proper bike". But on the NWT I tend to travel light with only one pannier, mounted on a Xootr Crossrack - if you were going fully loaded you'd probably want more forgiving gears. I'm intrigued to see there's a 44T/56T double cheap on eBay.

The parts are all pretty standard (more so than a Brompton) so any bike shop that likes bikes will do a good job of servicing it. I realise "a bike shop that likes bikes" sounds tautologous, but basically you want one that says "Ooh, that looks interesting" when they see it, rather than one that just rattles through the same old checks on road bikes and BSOs. Here in Oxford, both the Broken Spoke co-op and the brilliant old-school Warlands bike shop have done a really good job on mine, whereas a local friendly guy in a shed utterly bodged it.

In the UK they do come up moderately often on the secondhand market, despite there not being a UK dealer for several years now. I don't think Bike Friday, the company, are particularly aware of the world outside the US. (Although the BF Facebook group is absolutely full of people from Indonesia!)

Bike Friday do a whole bunch of 20in folders which are all essentially variations on a theme. The range has changed several times over the years. There are off-road variants which have two tubes rather than one, and the weird Air models (no longer made). I've long coveted the sportier Pocket Rocket, but sadly concluded I can't really justify the space on a bike which is only a little different from the NWT. Bike Friday do also produce a 16in model - first the Tikit, now the Pakit - but I confess I don't really see the point; 20in bikes ride so much better, and if you need the compact fold then nothing beats a Brompton. But they have their devotees.

 

[All uphill]

So..... it's that time. A brain worm has been wiggling away for a while and it's starting to become serious. I'm living in a whole new country, living a whole new life and my priorities are changing.

I've toured and commuted on my trusty Trek hardtail and Roccado has recently been upgraded to an 8 Speed drivetrain but he's not the most practical for my new lifestyle. He's being carried up and down stairs daily, locked outside of work for long stretches, exposed to the elements and while Spanish trains are great for taking bikes on, the area where I live is pretty sparsely populated and the options of taking a full bike on the train are limited. Hell, trains are limited! However, with a folder the limitations are a whole lot less.
My Easter Escapade was a weather washout (Top Touring Tip: Always check the weather forecast before you leave ) and only my most pathetic face was able to persuade a lady to let us on her train and avoid either a night in a(nother) waterlogged campground or a brutal ride-into-the-face-of-a-storm adventure the next day.

This bike will be a genuine 'do everything' bike. A commuter with panniers. A shopper. A socialiser. And the bike to ferry me around on short and long camping trips. It'll go on paved roads and streets but I'm not willing to give up my more adventurous surfaces. Just as well because there's lots of gravel in these parts. And it has to be climbing friendly. Has. To. Be. Climbing. Friendly.

That last thing seems to be the issue with most folding bikes - gearing. I've read of people upgrading their gearing, for instance by combining a hub gear with a derailleur setup but I am not mechanically minded. At all. I like things to be simple and repeatable.

My thought process is something like this:
Bike has to be able to use full size panniers.
Gearing should be appropriate for loaded touring in hilly places
Folding should be practical enough to be done daily, including the rear rack
I'm thinking disc brakes over v brakes based on the assumption that wheels will last longer.
I'm aware that hub gearing is recommended because on folders the rear derailleur is very close to the ground - but that comes at a cost when climbing or fixing punctures on the roadside.

I'm not considering a Brompton at all. They are too dependent on Brompton components. They strike me as complicated. And readily identifiable, therefore targets. Their big advantage is folding size but that's not critical for me. Smallest is not important. Small enough is.

A Tern Node is interesting because of the larger wheels (folded it will be accommodated on all trains here) but gearing is less than desirable. I've read that the frame has a mount to attach a front derailleur so there may be options. However, Tern will only honour a guarantee if the bike is only used on paved roads. That doesn't make me feel good. It has a rear rack, and options to the front as well. It is an attractive option if the gearing can be made more hill friendly.

The dream is a Bike Friday New World Tourist with a double chainring on the front (a triple is also possible), 9 speed cassette and lots of cargo options. Very much not cheap, a severe lack of dealers local to me (Belgium, Germany & Paris are the closest) but I've read of one doing this road so I know what it can do. (With a trailer!) That's important.
For some strange reason Bike Friday have never been able to ship a bike to Spain - apparently there is some customs issue. I'm checking to see if it's easier to ship to another EU country and from there to me - it could save a lot or maybe they're just trying to support their dealers.

I am not used to spending this kind of money on a bike - Roccado cost me €200 (and that was too much!) but I am looking at this as a lifetime purchase. (There are dreams of overnight trains to foreign places involved.) Therefore, the cost & ease of replacing components is a factor. The more customised, the more specialist the less attractive they are.

I thought I'd post this in case I'm missing anything obvious and maybe to encourage anyone with one of these bikes to chime in.

Or if anyone knows someone with a used New World Tourist....

Gracias

You've had me thinking @HobbesOnTour .

I've long admired your use of an old bike to tour the Americas and now you want to be like the rest of us and have the "perfect" bike?

How about buying the first Dahon/Tern that comes along side then adapting it as you go?

We have an old Bickerton (tern clone) folder that cost almost nothing ten years ago and does its job well. Sure the derailler gets mucky and has been replaced once.

Good hunting!

 

[HobbesOnTour]

It hasn't needed any maintenance on the suspension yet. It is only a metal spring on the front and a rubber insert on the rear I.e. a single piece. There are some additional joints due to the folding mechanism but all folding bikes have some version of these.

That is a pair of small panniers (2 x 10 litres) on the rear plus a bag on the top of the rack. It should be possible to fit another pair of panniers on the front.

Not meaning to be argumentative but without distance/time the need or otherwise to service the suspension is not very useful. I see 'suspension' and my head jumps to servicing.

The website is a load of tosh too - all fur coat and no knickers. Very difficult to dig out useful info.

I've had a look at the rack - an important component for me - and it strikes me as not being terribly strong.

But thanks for the input!

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Get a Folding Raleigh 20, you can get one for a tenner, put panniers in the back, they’re uncool, so no one will nick it, they’re feckin heavy, so it’ll keep you fit, they don’t fall apart ‘cos they are built with scaffolding tubes, hub gears that’ll never let you down.
Sorted, bosh, Tuesday.

I'm not adverse to a cheap, heavy bike (Roccado weighs in at about 22-23 kg) and there is always the option of something cheap and basic to prove the concept. But it won't be a Raleigh 20 for a tenner. At least not in Spain!

 

[HobbesOnTour]

I've messaged Hobbes separately about a particular Bike Friday for sale, but thought I'd jot down a few more general thoughts on the bike.

I have a New World Tourist and it's exactly as he suggests - a really flexible bike which you can equally use for long tours or just for zipping round town. Not having to book to take it on trains (or ferries) is a massive plus: I rode the Seine on it in 2022 and the lower Rhine on it in 2023, and in both cases I could just bundle it into a bag and go. It's plenty comfortable for 60 miles a day. But it works fine for everyday rides too - if I'm going into town to pick up Junior from school, this is the bike I take.

The fold is ungainly but small enough to keep train guards happy. You wouldn't buy an NWT for a daily commute but it's fine for semi-regular train trips. I wouldn't bring it into a cafe though or keep it by my desk a la Brompton: I just lock it up outside like a normal bike.

The gearing on mine is rather eccentric - nine-speed with a single 56T up front. Add some decent tyres (in my case a pair of Marathon Supremes) and it really does ride like a "proper bike". But on the NWT I tend to travel light with only one pannier, mounted on a Xootr Crossrack - if you were going fully loaded you'd probably want more forgiving gears. I'm intrigued to see there's a 44T/56T double cheap on eBay.

The parts are all pretty standard (more so than a Brompton) so any bike shop that likes bikes will do a good job of servicing it. I realise "a bike shop that likes bikes" sounds tautologous, but basically you want one that says "Ooh, that looks interesting" when they see it, rather than one that just rattles through the same old checks on road bikes and BSOs. Here in Oxford, both the Broken Spoke co-op and the brilliant old-school Warlands bike shop have done a really good job on mine, whereas a local friendly guy in a shed utterly bodged it.

In the UK they do come up moderately often on the secondhand market, despite there not being a UK dealer for several years now. I don't think Bike Friday, the company, are particularly aware of the world outside the US. (Although the BF Facebook group is absolutely full of people from Indonesia!)

Bike Friday do a whole bunch of 20in folders which are all essentially variations on a theme. The range has changed several times over the years. There are off-road variants which have two tubes rather than one, and the weird Air models (no longer made). I've long coveted the sportier Pocket Rocket, but sadly concluded I can't really justify the space on a bike which is only a little different from the NWT. Bike Friday do also produce a 16in model - first the Tikit, now the Pakit - but I confess I don't really see the point; 20in bikes ride so much better, and if you need the compact fold then nothing beats a Brompton. But they have their devotees.

Thanks, Richard. That's a very useful and informative post.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

now you want to be like the rest of us and have the "perfect" bike?

It's the drip-drip-drip nature of hanging out in a forum. Eventually barriers get broken down

Then there's also the reward element. I'm in Spain just over two years. I've travelled all over. I've qualified in a new profession. I've found a lovely place to live and my first year working has been quite successful. Ain't nothing wrong in a bit of a reward.

How about buying the first Dahon/Tern that comes along side then adapting it as you go?

Oh, that's still an option. The thing is that a lot of these bikes can be quite proprietary or use things I know nothing about - hub gears for one thing. I'd be confident enough checking out a second hand Roccado type bike, not so much one of these. In fact, one of the reasons I like the BF is that it uses a lot of standard components.

Another thing is the fact that different models/years of the same bike don't always play nice with current accessories. Or other models of bikes.

And I'm serious about the gearing. There's a lot of hills where I live. Steep buggers too! I'm already becoming known for riding a bike to work or to do the shopping - there's no-one else doing it around here! If the folder can't handle carrying a load up one of these hills it's a waste of money - no matter how cheap.

 

[biggs682]

@HobbesOnTour have you seen this https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=160249
No personal connection

 

[Dogtrousers]

Airnimal Joey? I don't know the first thing about them but an acquaintance of mine has toured on one. Might be worth looking at if only to rule it out.