This door zone thing...

[the reluctant cyclist]

I didn't want to start posting in the other thread where there are thoughts and condolences for the cyclist sadly killed after being hit by a door...

... but I could see that somebody on that thread had mentioned that he didn't really want to cycle in the middle of the road as he was holding people up...

Now I read this forum and try to be a better cyclist because of it but I have to say that EVERY single time that I have tried to cycle really far out from the kerb I have come up against trouble.

There is a really bad pitch point in Edgbaston with a crossroads where I am always being overtaken badly but when I do cycle in a defensive way (which in this case really does mean in the middle of the road) then I have had drivers revving their engines, driving right up to my rear wheel and bibbing.

I know I'm not supposed to let it intimidate me but it does - plus they tend to overtake hard, close and fast after I have "held them up" in this way.

Mostly what seems to happen is that I seem to be overtaken really close when they can finally get around me.

Now I'm not sure what I am doing wrong that you lot are all doing right but I do go a lot slower than any of you lot - mostly becuase I just simply don't feel safe riding in traffic doing 23/26 mph. I tend to tootle along at a sedate 12/16 mph most of the time - is this what the problem is?

Can you only "hold your lane" etc if you are going over 20?

I ask because I do find myself in the door zone a lot - although I feel that I am watchful etc and keep an eye on the cars that are parked up I know that one day I might find myself in trouble (again!!).

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I didn't want to start posting in the other thread where there are thoughts and condolences for the cyclist sadly killed after being hit by a door...

... but I could see that somebody on that thread had mentioned that he didn't really want to cycle in the middle of the road as he was holding people up...

Now I read this forum and try to be a better cyclist because of it but I have to say that EVERY single time that I have tried to cycle really far out from the kerb I have come up against trouble.

There is a really bad pitch point in Edgbaston with a crossroads where I am always being overtaken badly but when I do cycle in a defensive way (which in this case really does mean in the middle of the road) then I have had drivers revving their engines, driving right up to my rear wheel and bibbing.

I know I'm not supposed to let it intimidate me but it does - plus they tend to overtake hard, close and fast after I have "held them up" in this way.

Mostly what seems to happen is that I seem to be overtaken really close when they can finally get around me.

Now I'm not sure what I am doing wrong that you lot are all doing right but I do go a lot slower than any of you lot - mostly becuase I just simply don't feel safe riding in traffic doing 23/26 mph. I tend to tootle along at a sedate 12/16 mph most of the time - is this what the problem is?

Can you only "hold your lane" etc if you are going over 20?

I ask because I do find myself in the door zone a lot - although I feel that I am watchful etc and keep an eye on the cars that are parked up I know that one day I might find myself in trouble (again!!).

It is to do with being confident and assertive. Holding primary can be daunting but it is worth it. Not sure you need to be doing 20mph but you need to be cycling at a respectable speed. Primary at 5 mph would be taking the Pi$$ a little I feel.

 

[akb]

Agreed as above.

Cruising speed of 16mph is pretty respectable IMHO and holding primary is definitely worth it in a door zone situation for your own safety.

There is a road about a mile long with cars parked all over the place at the side of the road on my commute. If there is a gap in the parked cars, I may pull up and the cars go past and then pull out once clear.
If people are beeping/revving etc behind you; they are just twats and deserve the 2 finger salute. Dont forget, you have as much right to be on the road as they do.

Anil.

 

[gaz]

Primary at 5 mph would be taking the Pi$ a little I feel.

What do you do when you are going up a hill and there are pedestrian islands in the middle causing a pinch point?

Can you only "hold your lane" etc if you are going over 20?

I ask because I do find myself in the door zone a lot - although I feel that I am watchful etc and keep an eye on the cars that are parked up I know that one day I might find myself in trouble (again!!).

You can hold your lane at what ever speed you like. It will be harder to do at slower speeds, but is still possible.

Even if you are careful you can still be caught up by the door zone at slow speeds. I recall someone saying that a kid lying down in the backseats kicked the rear passenger door open into their path, their where no cluse that it would happen and you have no chance to avoid that if it does.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

What do you do when you are going up a hill and there are pedestrian islands in the middle causing a pinch point?

Either pull over before or after the PP to let the cars behind pass and give them a wave.

 

[gaz]

Either pull over before or after the PP to let the cars behind pass and give them a wave.

Pull over? As in stop?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Pull over? As in stop?

Depends on traffic flow tbh. If I am holding up a bunch of cars then yes. If the roads are solid with traffic no. Gaz there are exceptions to every rule. As the OP talked about 20mph it was pretty clear he was talking about a flat road.

 

[Tommi]

Now I'm not sure what I am doing wrong that you lot are all doing right but I do go a lot slower than any of you lot - mostly becuase I just simply don't feel safe riding in traffic doing 23/26 mph. I tend to tootle along at a sedate 12/16 mph most of the time - is this what the problem is?

Can you only "hold your lane" etc if you are going over 20?

It's definitely easier the closer you can keep to the speed of other traffic.

Unfortunately as some cycling "campaigners"(?) like to say you just need to "harden the f* up and assert your right to be on the road." (I for one would prefer cycling infrastructure separated from cars, but what do I know coming from country with ten times the snow and five times the modal share.)

 

[gaz]

Depends on traffic flow tbh. If I am holding up a bunch of cars then yes. If the roads are solid with traffic no. Gaz there are exceptions to every rule. As the OP talked about 20mph it was pretty clear he was talking about a flat road.

My comment was based around your comment of 5mph taking the piss.
But in some situations it wouldn't be taking the piss.
My safety comes before the convience of vehicles behind me.

 

[Wankelschrauben]

It all depends on the situation, some would say I am crazy for not taking primary up some of the roads I ride during the commute home.

I take primary along the door zone section which some drivers around here would claim is road hogging, I do however make every effort to get through it quickly which is usually appreciated by motorists who can clearly see that I am sprinting up a hill at a pace of around 20mph, I then continue up the hill in the cycle lane at a more relaxed pace getting knocked and bumped by passing cars through the pinch points.

Edit, the short door zone section for those that know it is on the Loose Road in Maidstone travelling from the Wheatsheaf pub traffic lights towards Hastings.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

My comment was based around your comment of 5mph taking the piss.
But in some situations it wouldn't be taking the piss.
My safety comes before the convience of vehicles behind me.

And mine was based upon the questioning of 20mph being the required speed. I will show courtesy to drivers where I can in the same way that a slow moving vehicle should to cars.

 

[sabian92]

The best way to think about it is this - Prioritise your way of thinking like this:

Your own safety
Your own convenience
Car driver safety
Car driver convenience

End of the day, they're in a big metal box weighing upwards of a tonne, you're on a 10-15kg bit of metal with a squishy thing riding it. If they can't be bothered to wait for a few seconds while you slow them down so you don't end up dead, then bollocks to them.

 

[Markymark]

The best way to think about it is this - Prioritise your way of thinking like this:

Your own safety
Your own convenience
Car driver safety
Car driver convenience

Sorry, you put your convenience above the safety of another road user?

 

[Red Light]

(I for one would prefer cycling infrastructure separated from cars, but what do I know coming from country with ten times the snow and five times the modal share.)

Quite:

"A recent study in Helsinki showed that it is safer to cycle on streets amongst cars than on our two-way cycle paths along streets. It is hard to imagine that our present two-way cycling network could be rebuilt. But in those countries and cities which are just beginning to build their cycling facilities, two-way cycle paths should be avoided in urban street networks."
The risks of cycling
Dr Eero Pasanen
Helsinki City Planning Department
Traffic Planning Division

​

 

[ohnovino]

Now I'm not sure what I am doing wrong that you lot are all doing right but I do go a lot slower than any of you lot - mostly becuase I just simply don't feel safe riding in traffic doing 23/26 mph. I tend to tootle along at a sedate 12/16 mph most of the time - is this what the problem is?

Intrigued by this bit - are you saying you ride more slowly in traffic because it feels safer?

I tend to do the opposite. When I'm out on a gentle tootle and I see a possible hazard ahead I'll often accelerate to match the speed of the other traffic, as I then find it easier to negotiate a way into the traffic flow.

Obviously that's not possible in every situation, but reducing the difference in speed between me and other traffic where possible does seem to help.