This under taking thing .....

[skrx]

Overtaking is always the way to go.

I disagree, and I'm going to provide an actual example (StreetView) (The Upper Richmond Road from Barnes towards Putney.)
As you can see, the road lanes are quite narrow -- presumably because they added a generous (for London...) cycle lane. There are traffic lights at both junctions (before and after), so there's often slow-moving or stopped traffic in one direction, and faster moving traffic coming the other way.

I always use the cycle lane, which often leads to undertaking the cars. Overtaking leads to conflicts with motorcycles doing the same coming the other way, or insufficient room if there's a lorry coming the other way, or being stuck on the right if the lights turn green.

On the Lower Richmond Road I usually overtake, since there's lots of parked cars and for most of the route a decent amount of space in the centre of the road.

Putney High Street is a place for undertaking cautiously (running speed or less), but overtaking is stupid, with all the buses coming the other way and other vehicles pulling into the centre to go around stuff.

 

[tdr1nka]

A few years ago I was flowing with or overtaking stationary traffic about here on Trumpington Rd (see the woman demonstrating why I always overtake traffic there?).

Ah the infamous, put cyclists in the door zone style of cycle route.
I will almost always stay in with the traffic or to the right of the cycle lane line in these situations.

When I do use the type of lanes shown in Richmond & Putney I stay hard to the right of the lane to make traffic have to pull out further to pass.

Other than that, as another former motorcyclist myself, I tend to overtake lines of static or crawling traffic where it is safe to do so.

 

[BentMikey]

As Greenbank says, either under or overtaking might be the lower risk option depending on the current traffic and particular location. On balance though, overtaking is slightly less risky, for two reasons:

Passengers are less likely to get out of stopped traffic on the offside, whilst they quite commonly get out on the nearside.
Drivers are much more used to expecting overtaking two wheelers than undertaking ones through years of motorcyclists. It's getting better in London where there are many more undertaking cyclists, but still, better on the outside.

There's a good reason for the saying "undertaking leads to the undertakers". Whatever side you filter on, remember to use extreme caution. I'd also be very wary of filtering through moving traffic, btw.

After reading some of the posts on here, the thought of going into the outside overtaking position to over take the cars, to me anyway, seems even more suicidal than taking my chance on the inside undertaking.

You don't need to get "stranded" - I quite often overtake even on dual carriageways, and it's not a problem to negotiate back to the nearside of the nearside lane across both or even three lanes. It's just a matter of timing, confidence, and signalling, and is surprisingly easy and low risk, IMO.

 

[gaz]

You don't need to get "stranded" - I quite often overtake even on dual carriageways, and it's not a problem to negotiate back to the nearside of the nearside lane across both or even three lanes. It's just a matter of timing, confidence, and signalling, and is surprisingly easy and low risk, IMO.

Going from the left side of park lane to the right side is still difficult imo.

 

[BentMikey]

I have experience of that one - I don't think it's too hard at all. Mind I seem to be a very assertive cyclist comparing with others.

 

[Greenbank]

Putney High Street is a place for undertaking cautiously (running speed or less), but overtaking is stupid, with all the buses coming the other way and other vehicles pulling into the centre to go around stuff.

Putney High Street is just a nightmare for commuting! It's two lanes in places, one in others, buses everywhere and awash with pedestrians. Rather than overtake or undertake I avoid it completely and use the backroads off Upper Richmond Road (Charlwood Road, Bigg's Row, Lower Richmond Road) and then over Putney Bridge.

 

[Norm]

You don't need to get "stranded" - I quite often overtake even on dual carriageways, and it's not a problem to negotiate back to the nearside of the nearside lane across both or even three lanes. It's just a matter of timing, confidence, and signalling, and is surprisingly easy and low risk, IMO.

Mind I seem to be a very assertive cyclist comparing with others.

Phew, I'm glad that I'd already posted this as I wouldn't want to be seen agreeing with BM.

IMo, if you make your intentions clear and, as BM suggests, assert yourself into the road position, then you should be ok. I would not have done it naturally, and it's only after a lot of experience on motorbikes that I have started to use both sides to pass stationary / slow moving traffic.

 

[BentMikey]

Phew, I'm glad that I'd already posted this as I wouldn't want to be seen agreeing with BM.

I don't mind agreeing with you when you are right! I think that's fairly often, luckily.

 

[Norm]

I think that, if someone had previously posted a link to something like this, the agreement percentage might have been even higher.

But, back to this topic, a point which may have been lost because I forgot to say it explicitly is that I would never suggest that anyone do anything that they are not comfortable doing. The outcomes if something goes wrong are generally not pleasant and, if you are not comfortable where you are riding anyway, then you probably also won't have the assertiveness that BM and others have said is required.

 

[BentMikey]

But, back to this topic, a point which may have been lost because I forgot to say it explicitly is that I would never suggest that anyone do anything that they are not comfortable doing. The outcomes if something goes wrong are generally not pleasant and, if you are not comfortable where you are riding anyway, then you probably also won't have the assertiveness that BM and others have said is required.

That's a very good point - there's nothing wrong with a bit of fear. Listen to your inner voice, it's there to help keep you alive. I think this is why cycling lessons are so good - you get to learn from other peoples' experience and knowledge.

I think it was John Forrester who estimated it'll take 500 miles to gain vehicular cycling confidence with lessons, 5,000 miles from a book, and 50,000 miles riding on your own.

 

[MacB]

I think it was John Forrester who estimated it'll take 500 miles to gain vehicular cycling confidence with lessons, 5,000 miles from a book, and 50,000 miles riding on your own.

Would this person have a vested interest in cycle training? IMHO 50K is just a gross exagerration.

 

[BentMikey]

Try a little harder....

 

[MacB]

Try a little harder....

Why? I didn't post the quote and don't adhere to that sort of statistic. I'll be inpressed if the numbers are based on anything other than woolly extrapolation. Or was there a large pool of cyclists, having done over 40k, that were found to be poor at cycling?

 

[Origamist]

I think it was John Forrester who estimated it'll take 500 miles to gain vehicular cycling confidence with lessons, 5,000 miles from a book, and 50,000 miles riding on your own.

As it's Xmas BM, I'll quote JF verbatim from my copy of Effective Cycling:

Distance and time required to learn traffic safe cycling:

Self-teaching 50000 miles - 10 to 20 years
Club 5000 miles - 2 years
Books 2500 miles - 1 year
Effective Cycling Instruction 800 miles - 3 months/quarter of a year

MaCB, JF often makes these fanciful claims (with no evidence/source) - it's a shame as much of his advice is sound.

 

[4F]

As it Xmas BM, I'll quote JF verbatim from my copy of Effective Cycling:



MaCB, JF often makes these fanciful claims (with no evidence/source) - it's a shame as much of his advice is sound.

Did JF and Jimbolee go to school together