Titanic

[Mad Doug Biker]

You obviously need to watch a bit more, then, as this myth was dispelled as soon as they found the wreck site.

For the proof, go to the bottom (irony ) of this page and click on the "Impact on the sea bed" link, then watch the first 30 seconds or so.

But we have been told for years that the metal wasn't up to standard in places, and we have seen the TV programmes where they bring up samples from it to test, only for them to find imperfections in it.

I'm not saying all of it was crap, just certain bits, which then didn't help the ship one bit.


I'll need to see that film on my laptop tomorrow, it won't run on this compootler for some reason.

 

[Globalti]

It will always be dogged by controversy but I would say that an extremely heavy point impact on the hull as the ship brushed past the iceberg (which might even have had the effect of brushing off the heads of the rivets) is a completely different force from a widespread bending moment in line with the sides of the ship as it came to rest on the bottom. Imagine taking a straight piece of cardboard made from a series of overlapping "planks" of board laminated together, lying it on a table then trying to bend it to curve like a road; it will be a very rigid structure as long as you hold it flat. Then imagine running a blunt object along it in between two of the joins; it will crease and fold easily. As another example a cardboard box is a stiff structure until somebody creases it by pressing on one point on the outside, when it will dent and fold. I'm no marine engineer but that's my view of it.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

I can't remember exact details, I wasn't taking notes. Channel 5, The Discovery Channel, etc etc.
Just programmes in general where they were talking about how the metal was quite brittle by todays standards, and the fact that it had impurities in parts when when seen under modern microscopes (i.e. the flaws that they never would have been able to see when they were building it).

It isn't just wild speculation, that is from metallurgists and people studying the chemical make up of it.

 

[Globalti]

The idea is that as the iceberg scraped along the hull, rivets popped and the hull plates buckled inwards as they unzipped. The newspaper article that I read seemed to suggest that the rivets were sub-standard either because the shipyard owners or the builders were trying to cut costs or out of plain ignorance.

As I've written I have no engineering training but I do know that there is a wide variety of different types of steel available for different jobs and the mix of other elements alloyed with iron makes a huge difference to the quality and behaviour of steel, as well as the way in which it is manufactured and processed into its eventual shape.

 

[classic33]

It will always be dogged by controversy but I would say that an extremely heavy point impact on the hull as the ship brushed past the iceberg (which might even have had the effect of brushing off the heads of the rivets) is a completely different force from a widespread bending moment in line with the sides of the ship as it came to rest on the bottom. Imagine taking a straight piece of cardboard made from a series of overlapping "planks" of board laminated together, lying it on a table then trying to bend it to curve like a road; it will be a very rigid structure as long as you hold it flat. Then imagine running a blunt object along it in between two of the joins; it will crease and fold easily. As another example a cardboard box is a stiff structure until somebody creases it by pressing on one point on the outside, when it will dent and fold. I'm no marine engineer but that's my view of it.

The gash that the iceberg cut into the hull of the Titanic was between 220 to 245 feet long. The total length of the ship was approximately 882 feet.
Though the damage in the hull was 220 to 245 feet long, the most recent evidence shows that there was only a 12 square foot opening (the size of a refrigerator) in the hull allowing water inside the ship.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

That'll have been the crap bit then!

 

[Paul J]

The newspaper article that I read seemed to suggest that the rivets were sub-standard either because the shipyard owners or the builders were trying to cut costs or out of plain ignorance.

In a documentary I watched they carried out analysis of the structure of the steel and found it to have a high sulphur content. This made the steel less ductile and likely to fracture rather than bend. They didn't know much about metal and how there composition effected the quality of the material or how it behaved in extreme environments.

 

[Norm]

The idea is that as the iceberg scraped along the hull, rivets popped and the hull plates buckled inwards as they unzipped. The newspaper article that I read seemed to suggest that the rivets were sub-standard either because the shipyard owners or the builders were trying to cut costs or out of plain ignorance.

As I've written I have no engineering training but I do know that there is a wide variety of different types of steel available for different jobs and the mix of other elements alloyed with iron makes a huge difference to the quality and behaviour of steel, as well as the way in which it is manufactured and processed into its eventual shape.

You'll find people who will say anything, despite clear evidence to the contrary. Myths which have been spouted for years in the expectation that the boat would never be found were busted as soon as the images came back. Understanding of steel making and ship making has developed a bit in 100 years too. The construction of the Titanic's hull was more advanced than boats 100 years previously (HMS Victory, for instance) and less advanced than boats now.

A big boat hit a bigger iceberg at high speed and lost hull integrity. The big boat sank, lots of people went into the water which was very cold (or there wouldn't have been an iceberg) and died. It doesn't need to be any more than that.

 

[Peteaud]

 

[Hover Fly]

It was known at least in the 1840s that sulphur made steel brittle, it was one of the reasons for Barrow steelworks becoming the world's largest as the local haematite had a low sulphur content. But H and W stood to gain very little if they cheated on the steel quality as they had a contract to build all White Star's and associated lines ships on a cost plus fixed profit basis.
"She will be built barring no expense." was a standard phrase in shipbuilding contracts of the time, including those for Titanic and her two sisters.

 

[rollinstok]

He's got a bone on !!

 

[MontyVeda]

so... when do the Masons come into all this?

 

[snorri]

so... when do the Masons come into all this?

That is the problem, they never did get into it, the Titanic would still have been sailing if it had been of ferro-concrete construction.

 

[Theseus]

According to a talk James Cameron gave at TED in 2010, the reason he made the film was so the studio would pay for him to dive to the wreck ... 7:10 to 7:50 ish

 

[Arch]

I saw a cartoon about the Titanic sinking. I don't have the cartoon or know anyway I can track it down but....

A large crowd has gathered around a poster pasted on a wall. The news poster has the words ''Titanic Sinks'' across the top, and ''List of Survivors''
At the back of the crowd is a polar bear straining to see what's written
The bear says to someone next to him:

''Any news of the iceberg''




Well it made me laugh.

There's a poem on that theme:

http://www.angelfire.com/yt/anneblair/lyrics50.htm

I heard the poet reading it on Radio 4 at a festival. He got the audience joining in for the last chorus.