To Ph.D or not to Ph.D ?

[Scoosh]

Daughter Scoosh qualified with a 2:1 in Mechanical Engineering from Strathclyde Uni in 2012 . She is currently in her second year of a 2-year M.Sc course in Composite Materials at Lulea University of Technology (LTU in Swedish !). She is doing a preliminary project on tribology - relating to the interface between the human body and hip and knee implants. This is not her field of particular interest and she will be starting her main project and thesis in the New Year - more carbon-fibre related, where her real interest lies (bikes, automotive, aerospace etc).

The 'problem' is that she has already been offered the chance of doing a Ph.D in tribology, based at Leeds Uni and LTU. She really likes her curent LTU supervisor, who would also be one of her PhD supervisors, the other being a very experienced Leeds Uni Professor. She would work mainly in Leeds and go to LTU to make some of the stuff which they/ she would then test in Leeds.

Daughter's 'problem' is 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 fold:

• tribology is not her main interest at the moment, though she likes it OK
• she hasn't even started on her 'main interest' project/ thesis
• she doesn't want to be mainly an academic - she wants to use her engineering skills to benefit the world
• she would like to have a job (with £££ !), then be offered the chance of a PhD in a topic of her particular interest, which would benefit both her and her employer after a year or two ...
• tribology is a new and fast-developing field = good to be in early
• will she actually prefer her current main interest - the carbon fibre stuff ?
• does the preference really matter ?

Do any of you have knowledge of/ experience with tribology/ doing PhD's - everything from:

• is a PhD all-consuming - does it totally take over your life, no holidays, just work, work, work ?
• are jobs as 'easy' to come by with a PhD as with, say an MSc ? (she doesn't want to go all academic)
• is tribology a sufficiently broad field so she is not stuck in the bio-mechanical/ medicinal areas ?
• is it worth it ?

Just to add some zest to the issue - LTU would really like an answer by the end of November !

What sayeth the Brains Trust of CC ?

 

[DCLane]

As someone who's just started an EdD (the 'Education' version of a PhD) I'd suggest it is pretty all-consuming. I'm doing mine part-time though.

If she's good enough to be offered a PhD in one area then potentially other offers are there? The challenge is getting a funded one though.

My only thought is that she needs to be doing something that interests her, otherwise the level of commitment won't be that great.

Oh, and if she's got some carbon-fibre bike stuff, I'm sure it'd be appreciated by me down the road at the 'other' uni.

 

[Fubar]

Gee, you just said a whole load of big words that me no understand - sounds good though!

 

[Chromatic]

My two penn'orth.

Tribology: If it is new and fast developing then get in early, become worlds leading expert, fame and fortune may follow.
Carbon fibre: Old hat now really, loads of if being done everywhere, what's new left to know?

You get my drift?

 

[coffeejo]

That's a lot of time, commitment and money for something she's not devoted to, as it were. Non-specialist PhDs sound like something for the established person in their field, not the newcomer.

 

[amasidlover]

A PhD can be all-consuming... But equally I found it no worse than various other jobs I've done and much less so than starting a new business.

My PhD put me in a position where I had to be extremely self motivated, it wasn't unusual to be given a fairly wide brief on a task and then left to find my own way for months with only 'corridor' conversations with my supervisor to give him updates. This isn't necessarily a bad thing (or universal to PhDs), but if you're not really interested in the subject I imagine it would make life very difficult.

In terms of jobs, I don't think it will make much difference over an MSc either in terms of over-qualified-ness or salary; which would lead me to say that if she is having to self-fund it then I'd be very dubious about ever recovering the whole cost through improved salary.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Having quit a PhD in a field that was 'new and emerging' 20 years ago (I quit it after 2 years of work in it) and it was also not my preferred area of study, I can only suggest that she sticks with what she likes and feels 'happiest' with. A PhD is a huge commitment and needs lots of time and effort and will take a lot of work and put her under a lot of pressure. You can take holidays, but expect it to be frowned up on, at least it was where I was at and it does take over your life for the duration and it is not a 9-5 job even 7 days a week. It takes much more than that.

However, if she like the supervisor(s) and likes (but not loves) the field and is prepared to put in the work then she should give it some serious consideration, but you do state that the supervisor she likes is based at LTU and she will be spending most of her time in Leeds. However, the opportunity to get into a new and emerging field and one that has serious consideration in human 'health' in respect to implants is one to be taken seriously. It would be a major field if something comes of it.

But she has to ask herself seriously which field she wants to be in and just because she has a PhD will not mean she will be academic all her life.

 

[Stephen C]

As some one who is currently writing up, the biggest issue I had/have is self-motivation, and that is in part down to studying something I'm not 100% behind. I'm studying 3D microscopy, and I love the practical side of it, getting samples, spending a few days on the microscopes getting the data, but hate the data analysis side of this, and the writing up parts (papers, conferences posters and presentations, thesis etc). If she is already familiar with what she will be doing, and her supervisor, then that is a great start to deciding if she would be happy doing it for 3-4 years.

PhD's can be very all-consuming, you have to be very strict with yourself, nobody is going to tell you it's time to go home or on holiday, so you need to be very strict with yourself to limit the hours you work.

I'm currently looking for jobs, and the PhD isn't really helping that much. Most jobs I'm looking at would be equivalent to graduate positions, I just don't have the directly transferable skills and so would still need training in the specifics, although I think the salary would be higher.

The advise I would give is, is she happy doing what she would be doing? Is she passionate and interested in the subject? Is she happy and comfortable with where she would be studying and the supervisors? Everything else will sort itself out after that.

 

[Bollo]

I have run run right now but can dump a whole load of opinion your way. Me and Mrs Dr Bollo both did Physics PhDs and I worked in research for a couple of years while Mrs Dr B is now a senior admin at a university of some repute. Our experiences during and after the PhDs were very different despite the common(ish) subject, so it's difficult to give a simple yes-no answer.

If I get the chance later this evening I'll PM you.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

A PhD is not like an MSc where you do the course, project, pass exams and bingo. PhD is all about research and coming up with something new. You write a bunch of papers and other profesors and supervisors stick their name in front of yours just because they read the paper and said "mmmm that's good" - a bit of an exaggeration there but still.....
In the UK having a PhD is not a big deal TBH. One of my MSc profesors used to love going to Germany cause he was respected as a Doctor so and so..... with a limousine to transport him around... here, the university didn't give him the bus fare lol.

I also quited a PhD and this was being funded by Ford but the funding was a fraction of what I was offered by another company to go and work for them.
Even an MSc doesn't really help if you cannot do a good job. The only thing that ever helped me was my experience and skills in a particular area. One of the best guy I ever worked with didn't even have a BSc.

Now, for personal satisfaction is another matter. I made my Dad very happy with my MSc. I was the first in the family. Other than that I'm sure the BSc was enough for me.

 

[Scoosh]

Thanks very much to all who have responded thus far - the Brains Trust of CC !

Any more bright sparks ?

 

[mustang1]

My two penn'orth.

Tribology: If it is new and fast developing then get in early, become worlds leading expert, fame and fortune may follow.
Carbon fibre: Old hat now really, loads of if being done everywhere, what's new left to know?

You get my drift?

With an analogy like that, I will give you the mustang honourary phd!
Buddha couldn't have said it better.

 

[Chromatic]

With an analogy like that, I will give you the mustang honourary phd!
Buddha couldn't have said it better.

I try my best.

 

[ColinJ]

Thanks very much to all who have responded thus far - the Brains Trust of CC !

Any more bright sparks ?

I knew a woman who was persuaded to do a PhD in a subject which was not really her main interest. She regretted the decision. She got fed up with having to lecture students who were clearly not very interested in it either, and she hated the endless funding problems, and the academic back-stabbing she encountered! Apart from that, she loved it ...

She packed it in after 2 or 3 years.

I know another couple of people who only lasted about 2 years, for similar reasons.

 

[Scoosh]

Apparently the drop-out rate for PhDs is rather high ...