To Ph.D or not to Ph.D ?

[Stephenite]

An ex-gf started a PhD here in Norway. Didn't finish. With big decisions, like whether to start a PhD or not, you have to weigh up the positives and negatives. In my ex's case there were a lot of positives (pay, people, travel, etc.) and one big negative, ie. she wasn't turned on by the subject. She struggled along for a couple of years until it was, eventually and finally, put on hold. - my tuppeneth for what it's worth.

 

[Archie_tect]

I know 2 people who persevered to get their PhD, and 3 who didn't [they were offered better posts to leave]- it has made no practical difference to their ability to do any job but the PhD people have had to subsequently do considerably less to be appointed to a decent position in their preferred universities and became lazy so effectively have pack-pedalled since.

It comes down to the individual's drive and enthusiasm so up to them really.... which doesn't really help.

 

[Fnaar]

Tribology... there's the rub

I'd say, if she doesn't love it, don't do it.

 

[Archie_tect]

Tribology... there's the rub

I'd say, if she doesn't love it, don't do it.

Conversely, if she's good at it, then she may grow to love it especially if it's groundbreaking research [not just pushing existing knowledge] + leading the world. The international dimension will be really exciting too... and set her up for life.

 

[pplpilot]

I admire anyone who has the self discipline to complete a PhD, I mean it isn't exactly easy is it? However I do question the value of it if any of the 'Dr's' here are anything to go by...

 

[Scoosh]

Scoosh - my question would be, what do the people in her chosen career have? If the successful ones, who make it to senior management etc have a PhD then it is worth thinking about, particularly if she gets on with her supervisor.

At the moment, she doesn't really have a 'chosen career' - she just wants to be a 'good engineer' (but NOT 'a-laying dead ...' - J Cash and probably others ). In her mind's eye, she would like to be working for a company that makes stuff and they need some material to do a specific job - but don't know what that material is, nor if it actually exists. They ask 'Materials Specialist Heather' (for that is her real name ) for advice and she advises/ researches/ creates the thing they need, so they are very appreciative and give her a big pay-rise. (OK, that last bit is the Dad-wish ).

She has been looking at various companies in the north of England - Sheffield area, I think, just to see what there is and what catches her attention.

 

[Arch]

Daughter Scoosh qualified with a 2:1 in Mechanical Engineering from Strathclyde Uni in 2012 . She is currently in her second year of a 2-year M.Sc course in Composite Materials at Lulea University of Technology (LTU in Swedish !). She is doing a preliminary project on tribology - relating to the interface between the human body and hip and knee implants. This is not her field of particular interest and she will be starting her main project and thesis in the New Year - more carbon-fibre related, where her real interest lies (bikes, automotive, aerospace etc).

The 'problem' is that she has already been offered the chance of doing a Ph.D in tribology, based at Leeds Uni and LTU. She really likes her curent LTU supervisor, who would also be one of her PhD supervisors, the other being a very experienced Leeds Uni Professor. She would work mainly in Leeds and go to LTU to make some of the stuff which they/ she would then test in Leeds.

Daughter's 'problem' is 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 fold:

• tribology is not her main interest at the moment, though she likes it OK
• she hasn't even started on her 'main interest' project/ thesis
• she doesn't want to be mainly an academic - she wants to use her engineering skills to benefit the world
• she would like to have a job (with £££ !), then be offered the chance of a PhD in a topic of her particular interest, which would benefit both her and her employer after a year or two ...
• tribology is a new and fast-developing field = good to be in early
• will she actually prefer her current main interest - the carbon fibre stuff ?
• does the preference really matter ?

Do any of you have knowledge of/ experience with tribology/ doing PhD's - everything from:

• is a PhD all-consuming - does it totally take over your life, no holidays, just work, work, work ?
• are jobs as 'easy' to come by with a PhD as with, say an MSc ? (she doesn't want to go all academic)
• is tribology a sufficiently broad field so she is not stuck in the bio-mechanical/ medicinal areas ?
• is it worth it ?

Just to add some zest to the issue - LTU would really like an answer by the end of November !

What sayeth the Brains Trust of CC ?

Here's my story, if it helps.

I went to uni as a mature student, and quickly loved it. Got a first class Bsc and was told early on I was marked as PhD material. Did MSc, got distinction, loved it. Supervisor, who I really liked, offered me PhD study in interesting subject, and I got department funding.

Liked the research, loved the bits of teaching I did. But gradually realised that the career in academia I fancied wasn't all teaching and research, and I knew I'd hate all the chasing round for funding for projects all the time. Also, the analysis of the results of the research proved so much harder than the research. Throw in a traumatic bereavement, and one day, with 6 months left to fit in what seemed like a couple of years work left to do, I quit. My supervisor, who had been wonderful throughout, completely understood, - he'd probably seen it coming before I did to be honest.

I don't regret the time I spent doing it, but I don't regret quitting, because by the end, I didn't want the same things I wanted at the beginning. I hugely admire anyone who can do it and complete, but I made the right choice to walk away.

So... if it's not a subject she really loves, and she wants to earn money, and she doesn't want to be an academic, leave the PhD for now. There will be opportunities in the future, plenty of people come to doctorates in mature years - several of my fellow doc students were mature students having a career change, or returning to the subject.

 

[Archie_tect]

This is one of the best, most upliftingly positive threads I've read on CC. Thanks Scoosh!

 

[Scoosh]

This is one of the best, most upliftingly positive threads I've read on CC. Thanks Scoosh!

Au contraire - the thanks go to the Brains Trust of CC (more than one could have imagined, eh ??? )

Your contributions have given much food for thought - and I'm sending her the link, so behave now !

 

[Brandane]

Daughter Scoosh qualified with a 2:1 in Mechanical Engineering from Strathclyde Uni in 2012 . She is currently in her second year of a 2-year M.Sc course in Composite Materials at Lulea University of Technology (LTU in Swedish !). She is doing a preliminary project on tribology - relating to the interface between the human body and hip and knee implants. This is not her field of particular interest and she will be starting her main project and thesis in the New Year - more carbon-fibre related, where her real interest lies (bikes, automotive, aerospace etc).

The 'problem' is that she has already been offered the chance of doing a Ph.D in tribology, based at Leeds Uni and LTU. She really likes her curent LTU supervisor, who would also be one of her PhD supervisors, the other being a very experienced Leeds Uni Professor. She would work mainly in Leeds and go to LTU to make some of the stuff which they/ she would then test in Leeds.

Daughter's 'problem' is 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 fold:

• tribology is not her main interest at the moment, though she likes it OK
• she hasn't even started on her 'main interest' project/ thesis
• she doesn't want to be mainly an academic - she wants to use her engineering skills to benefit the world
• she would like to have a job (with £££ !), then be offered the chance of a PhD in a topic of her particular interest, which would benefit both her and her employer after a year or two ...
• tribology is a new and fast-developing field = good to be in early
• will she actually prefer her current main interest - the carbon fibre stuff ?
• does the preference really matter ?

Do any of you have knowledge of/ experience with tribology/ doing PhD's - everything from:

• is a PhD all-consuming - does it totally take over your life, no holidays, just work, work, work ?
• are jobs as 'easy' to come by with a PhD as with, say an MSc ? (she doesn't want to go all academic)
• is tribology a sufficiently broad field so she is not stuck in the bio-mechanical/ medicinal areas ?
• is it worth it ?

Just to add some zest to the issue - LTU would really like an answer by the end of November !

What sayeth the Brains Trust of CC ?

The nearest I got to being an academic was sitting my SCE O-levels in 1978, so I can't contribute much in the way of experience here!
I do think that "Doctor Scoosh" has a certain ring to it though .
Good luck to her, whatever her decision may be.

 

[vernon]

Apparently the drop-out rate for PhDs is rather high ...

Yep. I'm in there with the drop outs. My supervisor was a pirate and I saw quite a lot of my work that he rubbished emerge as papers with his name at the top. Not one of the PhD students that I worked with under the same supervisor completed their PhDs.

 

[Scoosh]

Yes, my PhD-qualified niece's advice was to make sure you get on well with the supervisor. I've added to check the success rate of past and current students too.

Sorry to hear that, @vernon.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Yep. I'm in there with the drop outs. My supervisor was a pirate and I saw quite a lot of my work that he rubbished emerge as papers with his name at the top. Not one of the PhD students that I worked with under the same supervisor completed their PhDs.

Same here... Also didn't help that there was a major cultural divide between us and him with him being Japanese. He had only just arrived in the UK and we were his first students... Best thing I did was quit, should have done it much sooner than I did.

I will add I have nothing against the Japanese, it was just a complete and utter cultural failing that occurred. Lessons learnt on all sides

 

[vernon]

Yes, my PhD-qualified niece's advice was to make sure you get on well with the supervisor. I've added to check the success rate of past and current students too.

Sorry to hear that, @vernon.

My only regret is that I was subsequently unable to change my name by deed poll to make my pompous headmaster, MA Cantab., address me as Dr Zhivago.

 

[Glow worm]

This thread seems like a good excuse to hear this one again..