toe overlap

[blazingsaddles]

I recently posted a topic titled "frame for touring bike". Thanks again for replies. Upon recommendation I visited Hewitts and can say that the Cheviot touring bikes he does look great. Fortunately there was an xl in there so I was able to sit on and check dimentions. I did notice some toe overlap (size 14 I'm afraid) and was a little concerned so I thought I'd better hang fire on an order therefore.

Whats the general feeling regarding toe overlap? I was also considering a 60cm Surly Long Haul Trucker but I guess now I'd perhaps be better physically trying the size unless anybody has one and can confirm thats not an issue. Any other suggestions as I can't seem to find anybody with a Dawes Galaxy or Ridgeback Panorama in 60cm? I could also try the Thorn Club tour which is within my budget.

 

[blazingsaddles]

Just thought I'd ask why would a tourer have toe overlap when I've no problem with my 58cm Speciazized Globe?

 

[Brains]

Personally I would not get a bike with toe overlap.
Do you some sort of clips (SPD's or old type toe clips ?) or is the overlap as you put your canoes in the middle of the pedal ?

I would have thought Hewlett could have supplied a bike without overlap, and if they can't Thorn certainly can, (and they also supply a 3 month "return if you don't like it" warranty on their bikes)

 

[blazingsaddles]

It was with the ball of my foot on the pedal and my toe was catching the front fender. Although at the shop they said the fender could be moved a little closer to the tyre I figuered once clips are fitted to the pedal that will be closer than my toe anyway.
Incidently yesterday I did try for size a standard Galaxy in a 57cm size and that had even worse toe overlap although it was a size too small anyway.

 

[Tim Bennet.]

Toe overlap is one of those things that sounds terrible in theory, but in real life makes no difference what so ever.

It's incredible common on all sorts of bikes and doesn't pose any problem beyond the imagination of those who get worried by such irrelevancies.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Toe overlap is one of those things that sounds terrible in theory, but in real life makes no difference what so ever.

It's incredible common on all sorts of bikes and doesn't pose any problem beyond the imagination of those who get worried by such irrelevancies.

Agreed.

My fixie with old-fashined toe-clips and +/- full guards has overlap and it's never been a problem. I've toured on the same frame too (geared) and there was no issue there either. Whilst it seems a bit scary, as Tim rightly says the reality is it's really not an issue.

 

[Young Un]

u just learn to position your pedals right when turning, which on a bike with a freewheel is no problem whatsoever, surely the only place your going to get it is when riding round a corner, and if your going round a tightenough corner to get it surely you would have stopped pedaling anyway.


+ if fab can do it on a fixed where you dont have free wheel then it must be no problem at all

 

[Joe24]

I have pretty big toe overlap on the fixed and my Giant. Not a problem, you wont really notice it after a while. On the Giant you freewheel and turn the bars, or put it in time with your foot pedling. On fixed you just time it right. Its easy really, nothing to worry about.

 

[riche]

Should you consider touring somewhere like the Dolomites/Alps toe overlap will be important as some of the hairpin bends require you to a) turn sharply & keep pedalling - this can catch out the unwary.

 

[rich p]

Should you consider touring somewhere like the Dolomites/Alps toe overlap will be important as some of the hairpin bends require you to a) turn sharply & keep pedalling - this can catch out the unwary.

I have little bit on my Galaxy but it's never been an issue unless I'm stationary, straddling the bike and turning the wheel. So not an issue at all IMO

 

[Yorkshireman]

Interesting post from Chris Juden on the CTC Forum

It's a very common design fault, especially prevalent in American designs, where they take no account of mudguards even when the fork has provision to fit them. Some bikes even have toe overlap with a bare tyre!

If you want to avoid this fault - and you should - you will need to restrict your choice to British designs or go custom, strictly specifying the minimum front centres dimension. Amongst ready-made bikes of the sort you are after, Thorn Audax is one of the few that should give the necessary clearance.

Edit: In reply to pigman, toe overlap does occasionally cause riders to fall, never at high speed, but it is possible to fall into the path of a faster following vehicle whilst riding slowly. I've known (sometimes seen) riders fall due to this fault when starting off, zig-zagging up a steep hill, weaving through a traffic jam and negotiating cyclepath obstacles. Toe overlap with a front mudguard can be even more dangerous. It damages the mudguard and encourages the rider to adjust the guard very close to the tyre, so it becomes liable to jam if a stone is picked up. Riders have died or become paralysed as the result of a jammed mudguard.

I find no correlation between bikes that handle well and those with short front centres. In fact I prefer the front wheel a bit further ahead for another reason too: it allows harder braking without risk of pitchover, so I'm happy riding faster downhill on a bike with long front centres.

The only problem with longer front centres is the availability of shorter stems to go with the longer top tubes, and longer rake forks to go with the shallower head angles. If these components can be sourced the riding position and handling will be just as good, if they can't it will be compromised.

Unfortunately there's a hair shirt tendency amonst sporting cyclists that tends to construct a performance myth around any factor that makes their bike somehow more exclusive. Toe overlap does this perfectly: no trouble for an experienced racer at speed, but slow novices fall off. Very funny.

Anyhow: the norms of racing frame design have evolved with scant regard for toe clearance, with the result that we have standard designs of fork and a limited choice in stems that makes it a bit hard to design a good bike that has it. Hard but not impossible. Some manufacturers meet that challenge, most do not.

I see it as part of my job to stimulate a demand for bikes that not only perform but are also safe against easily forseeable dangers.
_________________
Chris Juden

Thread here :-
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=99957&highlight=toe+overlap#99957

 

[Nigeyy]

To go against the flow, my experience has been to avoid frames with toe overlap -to me it's just not worth the aggravation. No matter how much I try to remember, now and again when I ride my one bike with overlap, I forget and it's just a pain -particularly at junctions when you want to a quick start. This isn't theory; it's practice. Interestingly I do ride a SWB recumbent with interference, yet for some reason I never have problems (maybe the recumbent is different enough for me to remember? Larger turning circle?). I should also add I was one of the ones who never thought toe overlap would be an issue -until I actually got a bike with it!

I can say it's been enough of an issue for me to realize it is one thing I don't want and just can't put up with on a bicycle -a definite decision maker when it comes to purchasing a bike. I can't see myself ever purchasing a bicycle with overlap given a choice.

 

[ASC1951]

Interesting post from Chris Juden on the CTC Forum

<<Some bikes even have toe overlap with a bare tyre! ....I see it as part of my job to stimulate a demand for bikes that not only perform but are also safe against easily forseeable dangers.>>

Thread here :-
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=99957&highlight=toe+overlap#99957

For heaven's sake!
I have 4" of overlap on mine and, even worse, it's a fixie; and worse still, I ride without mudguards; and worst of all, I occasionally venture out without a clipboard and thick glasses with side-pieces.

If you are concerned about overlap, buy an armchair and stay in it.

 

[Yorkshireman]

For heaven's sake!
I have 4" of overlap on mine and, even worse, it's a fixie; and worse still, I ride without mudguards; and worst of all, I occasionally venture out without a clipboard and thick glasses with side-pieces.

If you are concerned about overlap, buy an armchair and stay in it.

What colour

hair shirt

do you wear?

 

[blazingsaddles]

Thanks for replies,

Personally, inexperienced as I am I would prefer a bike without toe overlap.

Yorkshireman,

Good info provided there. From what little I know I would think that the compact frame is shortening wheelbases and causeing this issue to become more apparent and that compact frame designs are being used more by the manufacturers as less sizes are required to fit all.

The only firm I have found who will guarantee no toe overlap for myself is Thorn on their size 595L club tour which is also a compact frame but with a 620mm top tube.

Other than that you mentioned the minimum front centres dimension. What is this? Is it the distance from the bottom bracket centre to the front centre?

Thanks
Blazing saddles