Tour de France 2025

[Blazing Saddles]

Am I allowed to say that I don’t like the route?
Looks like a whole lot of nothing in the first half of the race. Not crazy about the mountain profiles either. For example, a hockey stick Ventoux stage.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Let's hope they've got a pair of sh1tty yellow socks as a freebie 😁

Nah. The days of freebie socks are long gone. It's just beermats I'm afraid.

 

[phreak]

Am I allowed to say that I don’t like the route?
Looks like a whole lot of nothing in the first half of the race. Not crazy about the mountain profiles either. For example, a hockey stick Ventoux stage.

The Giro route was pretty rubbish on paper, but the racing was good. I suppose the key is whether anyone can really challenge Pogacar.

 

[M.R.M]

If WVA has this form at the Tour, Vingegaard shouldn't even be considered an underdog vs Pog. I think they are on par with each other with it being a 3 week race and all. UAE team help hasn't shown to make a massive difference in contrast to Jumbo.

 

[T4tomo]

If WVA has this form at the Tour, Vingegaard shouldn't even be considered an underdog vs Pog. I think they are on par with each other with it being a 3 week race and all. UAE team help hasn't shown to make a massive difference in contrast to Jumbo.

Whilst teams can and do help, ultimately is about leader vs leader.

Also UAE will be a more cohesive team with Pog as leader and the lack of One eye Uso. The absence of Pog made for the lieutenants all vying for leadership in their one GT chance.

Dauphine might show us a bit more on relative form. Remco will be there too.

 

[phreak]

UAE are hardly short of options, with their Tour roster likely to contain Almeida, Sivakov, Soler and Yates. Throw in Wellens and Narvaez as well for the early slopes and it's easily a match for Yates, Kuss et al. I know WvA was a godsend on the penultimate stage, but Jumbo weren't exactly ripping the race up prior to then, hence why Yates was in stealth mode.

 

[M.R.M]

Whilst teams can and do help, ultimately is about leader vs leader.

Also UAE will be a more cohesive team with Pog as leader and the lack of One eye Uso. The absence of Pog made for the lieutenants all vying for leadership in their one GT chance.

Dauphine might show us a bit more on relative form. Remco will be there too.

Not really. An in-form WVA is a luxury almost no other team, outside of maybe Trek with Mads, have. WVA is such a good domestique that he gets overrated into "all time great classics leader" status.
The advantage manifests itself in the following, almost no other team (outside of Trek) has a rider who is capable of almost always making the breakaway when he needs to in a 3 week race. The starts are brutally fast and attacks go again and again and you need incredible raw watts that you can produce repeatedly. Most good breakaway riders can produce those watts 1-2 times, but not so often to be sure of getting away. they get away because they are allowed to. WVA & Mads and the absolute top classics riders can force the issue by raw power.

Unlike most of the other classics riders or big ITT specialists like Tarling or Ganna, WVA is able to stay ahead of the peloton even on mountain days. This was instrumental is both of Vingegaard's wins, because the moment Vingegaard takes a decent amount of time time on Pogacar in an ITT or on a bad Pog day, let's say 38-68 seconds e.g, it becomes almost impossible for Pogacar to get that time back.
Pogacar cannot just attack on the last climb and take back that amount of time. Jonas is too good for that and can ride defensively in his wheel. He has to attack from longer out and that means Jonas can do exactly what Simon Yates did in this Giro and ride tempo until he bridges to WVA and WVA will pull him to Pog. Jonas gets an armchair ride while Pog has to ride all out the entire time.
Jonas can then counterattack Pog on the final climb to put Pog away, or limit his losses greatly.

No one else has that to the extent Jumbo have. UAE don't have that and you cannot flip that scenario for them. They may have a weaker version of it with McNulty or Wellens on only hilly days, but they don't have that level of team synergy. Furthermore they wasted that tactical option in the Giro by having McNulty ride for 9th on GC and Wellens is often not good in the heat.

 

[Adam4868]

Not really. An in-form WVA is a luxury almost no other team, outside of maybe Trek with Mads, have. WVA is such a good domestique that he gets overrated into "all time great classics leader" status.
The advantage manifests itself in the following, almost no other team (outside of Trek) has a rider who is capable of almost always making the breakaway when he needs to in a 3 week race. The starts are brutally fast and attacks go again and again and you need incredible raw watts that you can produce repeatedly. Most good breakaway riders can produce those watts 1-2 times, but not so often to be sure of getting away. they get away because they are allowed to. WVA & Mads and the absolute top classics riders can force the issue by raw power.

Unlike most of the other classics riders or big ITT specialists like Tarling or Ganna, WVA is able to stay ahead of the peloton even on mountain days. This was instrumental is both of Vingegaard's wins, because the moment Vingegaard takes a decent amount of time time on Pogacar in an ITT or on a bad Pog day, let's say 38-68 seconds e.g, it becomes almost impossible for Pogacar to get that time back.
Pogacar cannot just attack on the last climb and take back that amount of time. Jonas is too good for that and can ride defensively in his wheel. He has to attack from longer out and that means Jonas can do exactly what Simon Yates did in this Giro and ride tempo until he bridges to WVA and WVA will pull him to Pog. Jonas gets an armchair ride while Pog has to ride all out the entire time.
Jonas can then counterattack Pog on the final climb to put Pog away, or limit his losses greatly.

No one else has that to the extent Jumbo have. UAE don't have that and you cannot flip that scenario for them. They may have a weaker version of it with McNulty or Wellens on only hilly days, but they don't have that level of team synergy. Furthermore they wasted that tactical option in the Giro by having McNulty ride for 9th on GC and Wellens is often not good in the heat.

 

[M.R.M]

Not really comparable. He is a very good rider, but for one thing not reliable and for another, Soler needs an early climb. Otherwise he also can't force his way into a break. He is mostly "allowed" to go, like all other breakaway specialists.

 

[phreak]

Not really. An in-form WVA is a luxury almost no other team, outside of maybe Trek with Mads, have. WVA is such a good domestique that he gets overrated into "all time great classics leader" status.
The advantage manifests itself in the following, almost no other team (outside of Trek) has a rider who is capable of almost always making the breakaway when he needs to in a 3 week race. The starts are brutally fast and attacks go again and again and you need incredible raw watts that you can produce repeatedly. Most good breakaway riders can produce those watts 1-2 times, but not so often to be sure of getting away. they get away because they are allowed to. WVA & Mads and the absolute top classics riders can force the issue by raw power.

Unlike most of the other classics riders or big ITT specialists like Tarling or Ganna, WVA is able to stay ahead of the peloton even on mountain days. This was instrumental is both of Vingegaard's wins, because the moment Vingegaard takes a decent amount of time time on Pogacar in an ITT or on a bad Pog day, let's say 38-68 seconds e.g, it becomes almost impossible for Pogacar to get that time back.
Pogacar cannot just attack on the last climb and take back that amount of time. Jonas is too good for that and can ride defensively in his wheel. He has to attack from longer out and that means Jonas can do exactly what Simon Yates did in this Giro and ride tempo until he bridges to WVA and WVA will pull him to Pog. Jonas gets an armchair ride while Pog has to ride all out the entire time.
Jonas can then counterattack Pog on the final climb to put Pog away, or limit his losses greatly.

No one else has that to the extent Jumbo have. UAE don't have that and you cannot flip that scenario for them. They may have a weaker version of it with McNulty or Wellens on only hilly days, but they don't have that level of team synergy. Furthermore they wasted that tactical option in the Giro by having McNulty ride for 9th on GC and Wellens is often not good in the heat.

I can only think of Hautucam where Wout was in a breakaway and was subsequently useful for Vingegaard.

 

[T4tomo]

Not really. An in-form WVA is a luxury almost no other team, outside of maybe Trek with Mads, have. WVA is such a good domestique that he gets overrated into "all time great classics leader" status.
The advantage manifests itself in the following, almost no other team (outside of Trek) has a rider who is capable of almost always making the breakaway when he needs to in a 3 week race. The starts are brutally fast and attacks go again and again and you need incredible raw watts that you can produce repeatedly. Most good breakaway riders can produce those watts 1-2 times, but not so often to be sure of getting away. they get away because they are allowed to. WVA & Mads and the absolute top classics riders can force the issue by raw power.

Unlike most of the other classics riders or big ITT specialists like Tarling or Ganna, WVA is able to stay ahead of the peloton even on mountain days. This was instrumental is both of Vingegaard's wins, because the moment Vingegaard takes a decent amount of time time on Pogacar in an ITT or on a bad Pog day, let's say 38-68 seconds e.g, it becomes almost impossible for Pogacar to get that time back.
Pogacar cannot just attack on the last climb and take back that amount of time. Jonas is too good for that and can ride defensively in his wheel. He has to attack from longer out and that means Jonas can do exactly what Simon Yates did in this Giro and ride tempo until he bridges to WVA and WVA will pull him to Pog. Jonas gets an armchair ride while Pog has to ride all out the entire time.
Jonas can then counterattack Pog on the final climb to put Pog away, or limit his losses greatly.

No one else has that to the extent Jumbo have. UAE don't have that and you cannot flip that scenario for them. They may have a weaker version of it with McNulty or Wellens on only hilly days, but they don't have that level of team synergy. Furthermore they wasted that tactical option in the Giro by having McNulty ride for 9th on GC and Wellens is often not good in the heat.

that reads like the sort of bollocks ChatGPT throws out.
no offence intended, lets agree to disagree

 

[Blazing Saddles]

Not really. An in-form WVA is a luxury almost no other team, outside of maybe Trek with Mads, have. WVA is such a good domestique that he gets overrated into "all time great classics leader" status.
The advantage manifests itself in the following, almost no other team (outside of Trek) has a rider who is capable of almost always making the breakaway when he needs to in a 3 week race. The starts are brutally fast and attacks go again and again and you need incredible raw watts that you can produce repeatedly. Most good breakaway riders can produce those watts 1-2 times, but not so often to be sure of getting away. they get away because they are allowed to. WVA & Mads and the absolute top classics riders can force the issue by raw power.

Unlike most of the other classics riders or big ITT specialists like Tarling or Ganna, WVA is able to stay ahead of the peloton even on mountain days. This was instrumental is both of Vingegaard's wins, because the moment Vingegaard takes a decent amount of time time on Pogacar in an ITT or on a bad Pog day, let's say 38-68 seconds e.g, it becomes almost impossible for Pogacar to get that time back.
Pogacar cannot just attack on the last climb and take back that amount of time. Jonas is too good for that and can ride defensively in his wheel. He has to attack from longer out and that means Jonas can do exactly what Simon Yates did in this Giro and ride tempo until he bridges to WVA and WVA will pull him to Pog. Jonas gets an armchair ride while Pog has to ride all out the entire time.
Jonas can then counterattack Pog on the final climb to put Pog away, or limit his losses greatly.

No one else has that to the extent Jumbo have. UAE don't have that and you cannot flip that scenario for them. They may have a weaker version of it with McNulty or Wellens on only hilly days, but they don't have that level of team synergy. Furthermore they wasted that tactical option in the Giro by having McNulty ride for 9th on GC and Wellens is often not good in the heat.

You really think that WVA can catch Pogacar, with Jonas in tow? What about on a major climb?
Maybe the two working in tandem could accomplish this feat. Not going to happen otherwise.
Actually, there is more evidence of Jonas being capable of doing that on his own.


Your post reads to me as if you are talking about the WVA we have only seen on one previous occasion.
So far this season, there has been little in his performances to indicate he is on course to replicate that form.

 

[Dogtrousers]

that reads like the sort of bollocks ChatGPT throws out.
no offence intended, lets agree to disagree

Hmmm

@T4tomo is a great big poopy head

No insult intended

 

[T4tomo]

Hmmm

@T4tomo is a great big poopy head

No insult intended

Non taken Squire! 😍

 

[steverob]

Nah. The days of freebie socks are long gone. It's just beermats I'm afraid.

That's only the "Souvenir" Edition. For £5 extra (or at least that's what it was in WHSmith) you can also get the "Premium" Edition which has coasters instead of beermats and a pair of blue socks with Allez written on them in yellow. Bargain!

I didn't stop to see if there was a "Deluxe" Edition or anything else above that level that has different amounts of tat.