Touring Bike 24 or 27 gears?

[John the Monkey]

Decent 7 speed hubs are no longer available, so that is not an option even if 7 speed cassettes can still be had. There are good reasons for argueing that 7 speed is the perfect number, but that is pointless if you cannot buy the bits. 8, 9 and 10 speed hubs are essentially the same, so that i snot an issue. 8 speed is a lot cheaper in cassettes and chains, and lasts longer.

Mrs Monkey's commuter/tourer has a seven speed drivetrain - I built her wheel using a 9 speed hub and a spacer to fit the seven speed cassette to it.

"Decent" is a subjective thing, of course, but if you can' t get them, there are ways.

The big advantage of her seven speed stuff is that it lasts FOREVER. I think my 3x9 tourer/commuter has been through two lots of chains and cassettes since I built Mrs Monkey's new wheel, and the (original) chain on her bike still has bags of life in it.

as for getting low enough gears, as the others have said, that's a function of having the right sprockets & chain rings. You could fit 5x3 and still not have a low enough gear if you do it wrong, or 10x3 and spin up monsters with ease if you get it right.

 

[Blue Hills]

Mrs Monkey's commuter/tourer has a seven speed drivetrain - I built her wheel using a 9 speed hub and a spacer to fit the seven speed cassette to it.

"Decent" is a subjective thing, of course, but if you can' t get them, there are ways.

The big advantage of her seven speed stuff is that it lasts FOREVER. I think my 3x9 tourer/commuter has been through two lots of chains and cassettes since I built Mrs Monkey's new wheel, and the (original) chain on her bike still has bags of life in it.

as for getting low enough gears, as the others have said, that's a function of having the right sprockets & chain rings. You could fit 5x3 and still not have a low enough gear if you do it wrong, or 10x3 and spin up monsters with ease if you get it right.

Yes my 7 speed Ridgeback hybrid (decent steel frame) seems to roll on and on. Currently has a a cheap rear wheel with an 8 speed hub and came with a spacer to drop a 7 speed cassette onto (SRAM - still seem to be easily available from Halfords last time I looked). Question re that spacer for putting seven speed cassette onto a 9 speed hub - is it easily available/what would I specify when asking for it? I enjoy riding the 3x7 around town - gets up some big hills fine - get the feeling that I use all of the range of gears more ( I don't get in to the top range that often on the 3x9) and though I run out of gears at the top fairly soon it doesn't bother me - it's not used for racing.

 

[John the Monkey]

Question re that spacer for putting seven speed cassette onto a 9 speed hub - is it easily available/what would I specify when asking for it?

I got mine from the LBS, just told them what I wanted to do and they fished one out of the bits box for me

Sheldon says it's a 4.5mm spacer;
http://sheldonbrown.com/k7-7.shtml#stay
Shimano's 9 speed cassettes have 4.34mm spacers, which might be close enough - if you've a pal who runs those, they might have one in the shed, or be able to save one for you when they next change a cassette.

Otherwise they're at Wiggle;
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/halo-7-8-speed-spacer
and Spa;
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b107s150p1331&rs=gb

and probably other places too.

 

[PpPete]

Although this is not really relevant for the OP / flat bars, Davidc your comment about Shimano 8 speed drop bars sti getting rare and expensive is certainly true. Have you considered using Campag 10 speed sti? They can be cheap as chips, and pull the same amount of cable as a Shimano 8 for indexing the rear. If one goes down this route, for front shifting there are options, but for most cases it is probably best to just use a Campag front mech.

Regarding 8 or 9 at the back, unless it is Campag*, I would pick 8 speed any day if system robustness is important.

* Campag 8 speed freehubs went obsolete ages ago, and aren't compatible with their 9/10/11 speed freehubs so will be a bit of a pain to live with

For a drop bar:
Campag 10 speed Ergos running a Shimano 8 speed drive train is certainly the way I'd go. Shimano MTB rear mech (Deore is fine). Front mech can be a Campag or a Shimano road mech (not a Shimano MTB mech though)

For a flat bar though - I think I'd tend to go 9 speed Shimano thoughout, as all the components are so readily available and not expensive. The only downside is that 9 speed chains & cassettes wear out quicker than 8 speed - but even replacing once a year is not a huge cost - just keep an eye open for special offers/ online deals through the year and pop them on before your big tour.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

To echo what others have said it it the range of gears that is important not the number. You will find that you use only a few gears for the majority of any ride. The larger the inside rear cog the easier it is the get up a hill the smaller the outside cog on the rear the faster you can go on the flat (if your legs are upto it). The same is true for the front cogs.

 

[John the Monkey]

For a flat bar though - I think I'd tend to go 9 speed Shimano thoughout, as all the components are so readily available and not expensive. The only downside is that 9 speed chains & cassettes wear out quicker than 8 speed - but even replacing once a year is not a huge cost - just keep an eye open for special offers/ online deals through the year and pop them on before your big tour.

Rotating 3 chains per cassette is working for me atm - I change them every 300 miles (once a fortnight) currently.

Parker have good prices on my favoured KMC chains.

 

[Bong]

I got mine from the LBS, just told them what I wanted to do and they fished one out of the bits box for me

Sheldon says it's a 4.5mm spacer;
http://sheldonbrown....k7-7.shtml#stay
Shimano's 9 speed cassettes have 4.34mm spacers, which might be close enough - if you've a pal who runs those, they might have one in the shed, or be able to save one for you when they next change a cassette.

Otherwise they're at Wiggle;
http://www.wiggle.co...-8-speed-spacer
and Spa;
http://www.spacycles...s150p1331&rs=gb

and probably other places too.

I use the small cog that comes off with the lock ring from an old 7 spd cassette, 11 or 12 T, in my case. I found this by trail and error when the first spacer I bought for this purpose, from a well known online retailer turned out to be only 3 mm wide and not 4.5 mm. Have recently acquired the correct spacer but not got around to fitting it as the "bodge" works fine.

Bong

 

[willem]

As for the difference between 7sp and 8sp, they are essentially equally long wearing, and the parts are equally cheap. The advange of 7 sp was that the cassette is narrower, so the wheel needs less dish. Yes you can use a spacer to fit a 7 sp cassette onto an 8 speed hub, but you loose the advantage of lower dish. As I said, decent 7 speed hubs are no longer made, so starting with 7 speed no longer makes much sense. However, 8 speed cassettes and chains are also very cheap and hard wearing, and the shifter would be the only incompatible part.
Willem

 

[vernon]

A reasonable range of 7 speed cassettes is still easily available. I can't see 8 speed going away any time soon.
The only issue would be STI levers, but evev so, I'd expect 8 speed ones to be around for a fair few years.

I speak from experience. Eight speed STIs are not that freely available.

I wouldn't contemplate buying a new bike with an eight speed drive train. In road bike terms the lowest spec that I'd consider for eight sped was Shimano Sora but that has become a nine speed group set. Trying to get one's hans on resonably priced 8 speed STI levers was problomatic when I built a an eight speed bike 18 months ago. I had to settle for a set of Shimano levers from an Edinburgh Bike Co-op tourer that was being converted to a flat barred bike.

Yes there's a range of seven and eight speed cassettes available and rear deraiileurs will work with fewer sprotes than they were design for but the sticking point is the gear change levers:

Decent spec 8 speed STI are not made.
Bar end indexed levers can be used as friction levers to wortk with fewer sprockets than they were designed for.
The same applies to down tube shifters.

Going for nine speed is, in my opinion, the sensible choice. The components will be available for longer than the dwindling stocks of eight speed stuff.

 

[snorri]

The very professional bod doing it has insisted that 3x9 gears is best for continued availability of a "choice" of components.

Has this very professional bod covered the pros and cons of Rohloff with you?

 

[Blue Hills]

Many thanks for your reply above Vernon but I should stress that it's flat bars I am looking at.

and:

>>In road bike terms the lowest spec that I'd consider for eight sped was Shimano Sora

I'm not looking at a road bike.

In fact can't help wondering whether this almost forced move upwards is driven by the drop bar road bike crowd.

Basic 7 speed rapidfire shifters still seem to be available from Spa Cycles and they surely cannot have disappeared from the planet?

My old steel frame ridgeback (which with new wheels might itself make a tourer) has very basic 7 speed rapidfire shifters (not sure what they are but lowish end Shimano I think - brakes and shifters all one unit) and they work fine - ie:@ they move gears up, they move gears down. And in fact the change seems more positive and solid than my 9 speed stuff. True, the change isn't as fast maybe as demanded by someone going for a sprint, but they work fine. This is after about 14 years use of minimal maintenance. And the derailleur mech is similarly low end Shimano - definitely not a work of art like campag - but it works just fine.

 

[vernon]

Coming back to the gearing question. I used the term road bike loosely in that the bikes that I mainly use are not used off road and are used for light touring, Audax and leisure cycling. They happen to have drop bars but I'd be equally happy with with flat bars.

Getting the drive train components to match up can be a real pain.

I'd still say that despite the fact that seven speed components are currently available, eight and nine speed components will be available for longer. Even though you have some long lasting seven speed rapidfire shifters accidental damage could reduce their useful life unexpectedly.

The central argument seems to be the gearing one and the ability to get 8 and nine speed set ups to be as low geared as your seven speed set ups - the gear change mechs being a secondary issue.

To lower the gearing you can look at the rear cassette range. Seven, eight and nine speed cassettes are all available with a 34 tooth max sprocket size.

The chain set at the front can go as low as 22 tooth. This should give you a bottom gear of 17" and I one had a Dawes Galaxy with such gearing. No hill defeated me.

The move upward is not forced by the road bike crowd but by the manufacturers. I resent having to migrate upwards in gear count and price range when replacing drive train components. Mountain bike stuff is on the same upwards journey though not as rapidly - they've only recently reached ten speed drive trains while the road community are on eleven speed.

If you want to spend some time matching/improving the gearing on you new build you could:

• Have a look at Sheldon Brown's gear calculator
• Get the tooth count for a range of rear cassettes
• Get the tooth count for a range of front chain sets bearing in mind that you can always change the rings

And spend some time tinkering to get a set up that appeals to you.

There is also a treatise written by the late Ken Kifer on gearing which will swallow up more of your rumination time

If after all that you have not got exactly what you want, you could then contact High Path Engineering and commission a Marchisio rear cassette with a sprocket and tooth count that meets your specs.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

If high mileages and ease of replacement in the future is the main concern go with what is current and mainstream now on new bikes intended for your purposes.

3 x 9 seems the menu du jour.