Towel radiator element power?

[I like Skol]

I'm going round in circles with this so hopefully someone out there can shed some light on my question.

I am going to convert an existing towel rad from wet (on the C/H circuit) to an independant electricaly powered rad to allow it to be used in the summer when we don't normally use the central heating. Elements come in various ratings from 150W upto around 600W but I can't decide which element to use. The rad will be controlled by a timer and set to come on once or maybe twice a day for just 30-60 minutes at a time. There is no thermostatic control.
I have looked at complete rads available that are a similar size to the rad I am converting and these tend to be sold with a rating or around 150-250W. The rad has a BTU rating of about 2000 which equates to around 600W and this is the cause of my quandry!

Because there is no thermostsat I don't want to over do the power so will not fit a 600W in case the whole lot goes into melt down. I am tempted to fit a 400W element but why don't any of the manufacturers fit an element this powerful as standard? In the meantime I have picked up a 250W element (from screwfix) but I am wondering if I should change it to the 400?

To further complicate things, there are small portable oil filled rads available with ratings of 1500-2000W and these don't glow red when in use!

Any suggestions from you guys would be welcome

 

[rusty bearing]

Not particularly my area but a 250 watt should be good enough for an 1100 x 500 towel rail though to be honest I'm slightly uneasy about the lack of thermostat. I would probably pay a bit more and get one with it .
I'm sure you know but connecting something like this in a bathroom/shower room comes under part 'P' as it's a notifiable area.

 

[slowmotion]

My two cents..... We don't have any heating in the bathroom in the summer. ( Three of us). We just hang up the towels on the back of the door and they seem to dry OK. In the winter, they seem to dry OK because we turn the radiator on, but hang them closer to the radiator. The only difference is that , in the winter, the ambient humidity is probably a lot higher. My guess is that even a decent unheated rail would just about work. 600 watts is completely over the top, and at peak rate electricity it will cost you big time. With one eye closed and the other squinting, I would plump for about 150 watts.

Unless you have a large family that baths constantly!

 

[PaulSB]

I can't make any sort of technical comment but you should consider the practicalities. We have a dual function one in our bathroom, CH in winter and electric at other times.

It's great in winter and dries the towels very adequately but does lower the bathroom temperature as the towels absorb the heat.

In summer I never switch on the electrical function, my wife does. She will forget its on leaving it till I notice and turn it off. Costs a fortune to run.

No idea what the cost of an element is but you can buy these radiators new from abut £50 upwards. Wouldn't that be simpler?

 

[I like Skol]

Not particularly my area but a 250 watt should be good enough for an 1100 x 500 towel rail though to be honest I'm slightly uneasy about the lack of thermostat. I would probably pay a bit more and get one with it .
I'm sure you know but connecting something like this in a bathroom/shower room comes under part 'P' as it's a notifiable area.

Wow, have you been peeking? it's 1300 x 450 so pretty much the size you have suggested. I reckon the lack of thermostat is the reason the manufacturers only fit a relatively low powered element, so the radiators reach a state of thermal equilibrium at a safe but adequate temperature?
The rad is to be fitted in a new kitchen extension so will be wired, checked and signed off by the qualified sparky.

It's great in winter and dries the towels very adequately but does lower the bathroom temperature as the towels absorb the heat.

In summer I never switch on the electrical function, my wife does. She will forget its on leaving it till I notice and turn it off. Costs a fortune to run.

No idea what the cost of an element is but you can buy these radiators new from abut £50 upwards. Wouldn't that be simpler?

This is not intended as the heating source for the room, just to dry towels and will be on a timer so only on for the minimum time required.
The rads of this size seem to start at around £120 so by spending only £40 on an element and some corrosion inhibitor I reckon I am making a worthwhile saving and besides, I love reusing/repairing stuff, it makes me feel like I am doing my bit in the face of a throwaway society

 

[subaqua]

250W will be fine . it is part p notifiable work in a bathroom . make sure you see the part p accreditation from the electrical installer - if not you could be fined if he isn't- that said the extension will have been notified to LABC anyway so theair argument is out of the window.

in the drying rooms in work we have 4 x 70W tubular heaters and a dehumidifier and they do a grand job of drying wet workwear.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

250W will be fine . it is part p notifiable work in a bathroom . make sure you see the part p accreditation from the electrical installer - if not you could be fined if he isn't- that said the extension will have been notified to LABC anyway so theair argument is out of the window.

in the drying rooms in work we have 4 x 70W tubular heaters and a dehumidifier and they do a grand job of drying wet workwear.

Not part of part p at all. If a new outlet is installed then yes it is. The element fixing is just an appliance and not covered by part p in any way shape or form.

If you intend to make this a sealed unit, then ensure you fit a safety valve, hot water expands. Not a problem if it is a mixed system, I.e., ch in winter and element in summer as the water expansion goes down the pipes.

We have this controller on our towel rails....


http://www.geyser.co.uk/element-tem...st-single-heat-elements-only-white-p-663.html


We only have 150w elements in our 3 en suites and I have set them on 3/5's and when we have showers we press the boost switch. The boost switch puts it on full power for 2hrs and the returns to previous setting. They are brilliant and as such, I've removed the wet ch radiators.

The company is local to you as we'll, being at Horwich near the reebok. The actual radiators are cheap as chips and come with all the safety valves.

Hope that helps.

 

[subaqua]

Not part of part p at all. If a new outlet is installed then yes it is. The element fixing is just an appliance and not covered by part p in any way shape or form.

If you intend to make this a sealed unit, then ensure you fit a safety valve, hot water expands. Not a problem if it is a mixed system, I.e., ch in winter and element in summer as the water expansion goes down the pipes.

We have this controller on our towel rails....


http://www.geyser.co.uk/element-tem...st-single-heat-elements-only-white-p-663.html


We only have 150w elements in our 3 en suites and I have set them on 3/5's and when we have showers we press the boost switch. The boost switch puts it on full power for 2hrs and the returns to previous setting. They are brilliant and as such, I've removed the wet ch radiators.

The company is local to you as we'll, being at Horwich near the reebok. The actual radiators are cheap as chips and come with all the safety valves.

Hope that helps.

based on the original post of a NEW electric radiator to REPLACE A WET SYSTEM it is a fairly logical process to deduce that a new circuit or outlet would be installed. it may be an addition to an existing circuit and if it supplies equipment into the bathroom it becomes part P notifiable. changing an electric radiator to a different type of electric radiator is also a significant alteration and would need to be part P notifiable as a bathroom is a special location it is notifiable.

http://electrical.theiet.org/building-regulations/part-p/faqs.cfm

personally i think Part p was one of the worst peices of legislation introduced in the last 10 years .

would you rather employ

1) a time served qualified electrician who isn't part P as the majority of his work is now commercial /industrial.
2) a kitchen fitter who has been on a 2 week part P course and hasn't a clue about safe working with electricity

thas what happened when part p came in.

There have been some changes that are not going to be retrospectively applied i.e. qualifying manager for part p must hold a level 3 NVQ in electrcal installation work ( that would be me )

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Stop wriggling, your statement assumed too many things. Fact is, a radiator is NOT fixed wiring therefore outside any legislation.

It is ok to say 'fair enough' on forum you know.

 

[subaqua]

Stop wriggling, your statement assumed too many things. Fact is, a radiator is NOT fixed wiring therefore outside any legislation.
It is ok to say 'fair enough' on forum you know.

so say it then.

we are answering a specific post. somebody else assumed when i answered a previous question that the colours would be the new colours as somebody said new house. I bought a new house a few yrs ago new to me.

will the existing circuit be RCD protected ? if not a RCD will need to be fitted and that changes the protective device type which is part P notifiable.

upgrading the supplementary bonding will be required if the lighting circuit isn't protected by an RCD . The upgrade of supplementary bondig isn't notifiable but changing the protective device type as above will be.

Based on the cost of a fine based on cost of notifying , which would you choose ? if he has an extension being buit that will be additional circuits so therefore Part P will apply , even though a notice will have been raised with LABC .

I know what NICEIC , ECA IET and shudders Napit would say.
part P notifiable. cost of notification for a part P is around a fiver per notification if you are enrolled on an approved contractor scheme. thats better than a possible fine and court costs.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

The op asked a question, which you jumped in with an answer to a different question, that was wrong.

If the op asked about fixed wiring then your answer would have been correct and relevant.

He didn't so your answer was irrelevant and wrong.

Just to clarify again coz you keep trying to cover up by introducing irrelevant facts....

If the op wishes to install a heating element to his house and power it from an existing power point then it is not part p and as such is perfectly legal. It is no different to any other electrical appliance in house.

 

[ColinJ]

If it isn't supposed to heat the bathroom then I have a simpler, cheaper and greener solution, courtesy of Victor Meldrew, of all people!

 

[subaqua]

The op asked a question, which you jumped in with an answer to a different question, that was wrong.

If the op asked about fixed wiring then your answer would have been correct and relevant.

He didn't so your answer was irrelevant and wrong.

Just to clarify again coz you keep trying to cover up by introducing irrelevant facts....

If the op wishes to install a heating element to his house and power it from an existing power point then it is not part p and as such is perfectly legal. It is no different to any other electrical appliance in house.

where in the original post does it say existing power point.? who is wriggling now? at the risk of repeating myself, actually no i can't be fecking arsed repating myself- read my replies agin properly .

and to answer the bold- stick a plug on it and make it an appliance and not covered by part P . if its fixed equipment via a spur , sadly it is covered by Part P.
its not quite as simple as that though as there are the issues I mentioned above have a look at section 701 , and the references that throws up. . Minor works cert specifically asks the questions.

this is why Part P is a feck up and needs to be more like the Aussie system where only licensed Electricians can work on electrical installs.

really simple,Level 3 qualification in electrical install. no notifications to any authorising bodies required. sadly we have this fecked up situation.

 

[Spinney]

To further complicate things, there are small portable oil filled rads available with ratings of 1500-2000W and these don't glow red when in use!

But they will have a thermostat, won't they? The 2000 W would only be used to get them up to temperature quickly.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

where in the original post does it say existing power point.? who is wriggling now? at the risk of repeating myself, actually no i can't be fecking arsed repating myself- read my replies agin properly .

and to answer the bold- stick a plug on it and make it an appliance and not covered by part P . if its fixed equipment via a spur , sadly it is covered by Part P.
its not quite as simple as that though as there are the issues I mentioned above have a look at section 701 , and the references that throws up. . Minor works cert specifically asks the questions.

this is why Part P is a feck up and needs to be more like the Aussie system where only licensed Electricians can work on electrical installs.

really simple,Level 3 qualification in electrical install. no notifications to any authorising bodies required. sadly we have this fecked up situation.

Why are you trying to fetch a part p argument in? Where have I assumed anything? Your the one who jumped in like a part p evangelical.