Tragedy - family friend death

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mrandmrspoves

mrandmrspoves

Middle aged bald git.
Location
Narfuk
Crankarm said:
I would suggest that your experiences would not generate the same response with others had they experienced the same as you.
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You may be right.....but I am not setting myself up as Saint Poves.....
I know the woman that killed my Grandfather and injured me as a result of her lack of attention has to go through the rest of her life with this knowledge. How could a decent human being be punished more?
I also know that despite considering myself to be a careful driver, I have lapsed my concentration at the wheel and any motorist that claims they haven't is deluding themself. I am a humanist so have no faith in God - but the saying There but for the grace of God go I, is pretty well my view on this except I would use the word fate instead of God.
 
mrandmrspoves

mrandmrspoves

Middle aged bald git.
Location
Narfuk
downfader said:
But it would price/remove the incompetent and reckless off the road. Would you apply the same logic to an airline pilot that "made a mistake" and killed hundreds? Or a caterer that poisoned people through negligence in their hygiene practice?

People know full well they can get away with driving without care and attention, thats why we see the speeders so often
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I don't agree, when you get behind the wheel of a car, you are in a potentially lethal machine. The greatest penalty for driving wrecklessly is death - hence so many road fatalities every year. People drive like idiots despite the risk to themselves, their passengers and other road users and pedestrians.
My intention in posting my original post in this thread was not to diminish the sense of loss nor to intrude on other people's grief ..so I apologise to anyone that has been upset by my views and I will therefore stay off this thread and leaveit to serve its original purpose.
 
CopperBrompton

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
downfader said:
In that case you'd expect a mistrial, or retrial ruling.
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No. The court found there was no evidence the driver was at fault for the collision. So no conviction for that, thus no penalty for that.

The court found that after the collision, he continued on for an unreasonable distance before coming to a halt, and thus was guilty of careless driving for that. Small penalty for that.

Now, commonsense suggests that if he driving carelessly after the collision, it is likely he was doing so before the collision, and it is further likely that this carelessness caused the collision. But there is no evidence of that and thus he cannot be convicted of it. It's almost uncertainly an unjust result, but people are mistakenly thinking he was given a £35 fine for causing a death.
 
alicat

alicat

Squire
Location
Staffs
Condolences to the OP and the family.

The news article says it is three penalty points and a section 35 fine. The amount of the fine is not specified.

The driver was charged with driving without due care and attention for carrying on driving after the collision.

Like the Rhyl tragedy a few years ago, one can speculate why the charge was not greater but the punishment does not seem outrageous given the details of the charge.
 
Mista Preston

Mista Preston

Veteran
I have spent the past 30 minutes reading this, its so sad and deeply concerning. My condolocences go out to the family, 20 is no age to loose a life. The circumstances around the procecution shock me. Is the local MP or any other group for that matter able to influence this any further or is this case closed for the CPS?
 
OP
OP
mumbo jumbo

mumbo jumbo

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham
Just to settle a few points as best I can:
  • There is no appeal available from this sentencing decision. In any event, the family are not interested in that course of action.
  • The charging decision (and to a lesser extent, the sentence) is where the family's complaint lies
  • The local MP has indicated that she is going to take up the case. I've no doubt that other road safety / cycling campaign groups will take an interest in the case. PushBikes, the Birmingham Cycle Campaign, is certainly on the case.
  • The precise details of the incident were not heard in court (he simply pleaded guilty to the charge) but we learned a certain amount from a Police officer who would have been called to give evidence if there had been a trial. I do not wish to say any more about it here other than to refer you to Tom's aunt's comments at the end of this blog post (previously linked at #82 above)
  • Suffice it to say, knowing what I know, I find the failure to charge causing death by careless driving incomprehensible. I should add that I am a practising lawyer (albeit not a criminal / road traffic lawyer) and have looked at the law and the CPS guidelines for prosecuting cases of bad driving and still don't begin to understand the CPS charging decision.
  • There is likely to be a memorial ride for Tom at some point if anyone is interested.
 
Maz

Maz

Guru
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un. Rest In Peace.
I know the area well; my sister used to live on Streetsbrook Road.
 
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