Training for Tramlines
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HJ said:More about trams, just in case anyone is interested...
Whoever wrote this needs to learn a bit more about trams. They need to learn a bit more and stop the me, me, me attitude.
marinyork said:
If you have followed the Edinburgh tram saga, there are few in Edinburgh in support of the project. It is coming in way over budget, will not make a significant contribution to the public transport needs of the city and is generally ridiculed. Edinburgh has a highly successful bus network and most people would rather the status quo was maintained. If pushed, people would admit that the money would be better spent on the generally good bus network.
The issue of cyclist and the tram is simply an element of a highly sceptical public regarding the introduction of a solution looking for a problem.
gavintc said:
Tell me something new. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt
. I just find it sad that other places are doomed to repeating the same mistakes as this city. Three cycle corridors are still suffering to this day and have never ever, ever been compensated. They will build anyway but you have to fight otherwise you will have fatalities and cycling on some routes will suffer horrendously. The reason why I commented was that Tram companies up and down the land are ****ing themselves in fear of one of the other companies letting trams on board -ever. It is just quaint that whoever wrote that is so blissfully wrapped up in their own world unaware of all the work that has gone in to this and other related joined up transport policies.
marinyork said:
Joined up? The tram goes from the airport to Leith. It does not serve the main railway station well. It runs alongside the current bus route. I cannot identify any real additional joining that does not currently exist. A rail link to the airport would have achieved more and probably cost less. The airport has rail on 3 of its 4 sides.
gavintc said:
I'm sorry I simply don't agree. There's a lot of work going on at the moment to try and install cycle facilities at transport interchanges and there's a great deal of kicking and screaming in resistance. We even had a thread along these lines but from another perspective the other day.
We've had a tram for many years and they still won't install proper cycling facilities at some of the park and rides. There's a lot of work going on with bus and railway interchanges.
Whether one would want to encourage airport use is another topic entirely. Infact on the joined up front too.
[QUOTE=gavintc;1053187]...... d most people would rather the status quo was maintained. If pushed, people would admit that the money would be better spent on the generally good bus network
Please Sir! Me Sir! I'm Edinburgh Public & I'm in favour of trams.
The council are numpties. Yes. TIE are incompetent -Absolutely. The route isn't the best. Obviously not.
But these are complaints about implementation, not the concept of bringing back trams. The real villlains of the piece are the council of 1952.
We can't keep running diesel busses forever -trams offer a choice of power from whichever clean source takes your fancy. There might have been an argument for trolleybusses, but rails are more efficient than tyres. And last a very long time -the money isn't comparable with just buying more new busses abd fuel. The initial line won't make enough money to repay the investment in a few years, any more than the M8 does, but it's a start. If trams carry bikes, it may well increase cycling in the city, as ordinary pootlers will be able to cycle slowly for short distances at each end of their journey, whereas now they get a sucession of busses door-door.
The issue of cyclist and the tram is simply an element of a highly sceptical public regarding the introduction of a solution looking for a problem.[/QUOTE]
The 'issue of cyclist & the tram' is a bit of manufactured publicity by people who are peed off about losing the argument. It makes Edinburgh cyclists look ridiculous.
Please Sir! Me Sir! I'm Edinburgh Public & I'm in favour of trams.
The council are numpties. Yes. TIE are incompetent -Absolutely. The route isn't the best. Obviously not.
But these are complaints about implementation, not the concept of bringing back trams. The real villlains of the piece are the council of 1952.
We can't keep running diesel busses forever -trams offer a choice of power from whichever clean source takes your fancy. There might have been an argument for trolleybusses, but rails are more efficient than tyres. And last a very long time -the money isn't comparable with just buying more new busses abd fuel. The initial line won't make enough money to repay the investment in a few years, any more than the M8 does, but it's a start. If trams carry bikes, it may well increase cycling in the city, as ordinary pootlers will be able to cycle slowly for short distances at each end of their journey, whereas now they get a sucession of busses door-door.
The issue of cyclist and the tram is simply an element of a highly sceptical public regarding the introduction of a solution looking for a problem.[/QUOTE]
The 'issue of cyclist & the tram' is a bit of manufactured publicity by people who are peed off about losing the argument. It makes Edinburgh cyclists look ridiculous.
sunnyjim said:
You guys have no idea you're being offered a pot of gold on a plate. This issue is highly important elsewhere and you just brush it off as if it doesn't matter, if it wasn't a big deal it would be comical how insular Edinburgh cyclists are.
sunnyjim said:
Well from experience here I would fight like crazy for signs, safety measures whatever you up in Edinburgh want. Once everything is done and dusted they'll never do it. We're still waiting for "safety measures" up my end after many years and they've got shelved back another year (oh surprise). I find it somewhat good that at least Princes St is tarmaced down the middle rather than concreted - we have this problem here. The downside of this is visibility so you need to pressure them for signs, paint, whatever you think will help and what you end up will probably be safer than here. By the way, I'm quite serious about the fatalities, we've had tram related ones here.
On joined up transport policy if you want park and rides for bikes or whatever raise it now. There's a lot of stuff going on at the moment elsewhere along these lines right now and it won't be regarded as unreasonable.
On cycles on trams, high up people in tram companies are ****ing themselves in fear of bicycles being let on trams under any circumstances. Trams here pinched several of the key cycle routes here and people have been campaigning for years to get cycles allowed in limited numbers on one of the routes (that is hilly). There was even a battle to allow foldables.
sunnyjim said:
I don't personally have problems with the trams myself. I get on very well with the tram drivers and don't have issues with tracks at this end. Other people do have problems and others are put off almost completely cycling stretches. There are undeniably some bad junctions though. The problem is that cycling in this city has been inconvenienced greatly by the tram at key points and those facilities that existed before have never been compensated. One still sits on the warrington cycle campaign to this day.
The tram here how it was designed, I was against it as it offered poor value for money and a bad design. I've used it plenty of times though. Now that we're stuck with it, I'd welcome a thought out extension.
I'm very glad if they are letting bicycles on, it's going to make some tram executives round the country distinctly uncomfortable.
Being able to take a bike on a tram (outside peak hours?) will be really useful. Too tired? Drunk? Forgot your lights? Puncture? Roads icy and not gritted? Take a bike on a tram and you'll still be able to cycle to work the next day.
I'm lucky in South London to have frequent national rail services, which permit bikes off-peak (as do some tube lines). I don't often take my bike on a train, but it's useful to be able to -- either for these reasons, or just to extend my range occasionally.
(Note I don't live in Croydon, and haven't ever been there, so I don't know much about the Croydon trams.)
I'm lucky in South London to have frequent national rail services, which permit bikes off-peak (as do some tube lines). I don't often take my bike on a train, but it's useful to be able to -- either for these reasons, or just to extend my range occasionally.
(Note I don't live in Croydon, and haven't ever been there, so I don't know much about the Croydon trams.)
