I don’t think a half life for tubeless is right. However, I have a number of light tubeless tyres with holes too big to seal or plug reliably. Some might bin these as they cannot be used with just sealant, being a Yorkshireman I just use them with tubes until they wear normally.
Tubeless for touring
- Thread starter Dirtyhanz2
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HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
Sorry to drag up an oldish thread but reading Jenny Graham's account of her round the world ride I came across this....
Now, that was pre-2018, she was planning to travel light and fast but she also had access to a fairly well respected group of experienced riders so I don't think she was plucking the idea out of the air.
Now, that was pre-2018, she was planning to travel light and fast but she also had access to a fairly well respected group of experienced riders so I don't think she was plucking the idea out of the air.
Sea of vapours
Guru
- Location
- Clapham, Yorkshire Dales
Can you explain what this statement means?
'A tubeless tyre needs to be made with more lightweight material, so that the side walls can be air-penetrated in the absence of the inner tube.'
'A tubeless tyre needs to be made with more lightweight material, so that the side walls can be air-penetrated in the absence of the inner tube.'
T4tomo
Legendary Member
yes that confused me as well, as tubeless doesn't not want an air permeable tyre (although sealant should take care of that) or is that the point, you want air holes for the sealant to get into and give a good sealant-y seal?
I don't do much larger volume tyre riding so have never bothered with tubeless set-ups so cant really comment further.
The tech has moved on a lot since 2018 though, both in tyres and sealant
I do think manufacturers make there tubeless varieties with thinner / more supple (and hence vulnerable) side walls though, to enhance that "better ride" mystical quality and hope the sealant does it job with any nics.
chriswoody
Legendary Member
- Location
- Northern Germany
So I'm more confused than ever! not hard I know.
So having a quick scout around the internet I found a number of articles pertaining to how a tyre is actually constructed. Generally you have a casing that forms the skeleton of the tire which is made of fabric. Manufacturers use the term TPI (Threads per Inch) to explain how many threads make up a single layer of fabric, anything from 60 tpi to 120. At 60 tpi the threads are thicker than 120 tpi threads. It's all explained a little bit better here:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/what-is-tpi-in-bike-tyres/
After the casing is built, there may be a layer of puncture protection put on top before an outer layer of rubber is put on, then it's all bonded together. I have a pair of Teravail Rutland tyres on my gravel bike, set up tubeless and running at 32psi. With Teravail, they offer a light and supple casing and a Durable casing for their tubeless tyres, the difference being, the durable has extra layers of sidewall and puncture protection added.
https://www.teravail.com/articles/whats-in-a-tire-all-about-casings-and-compounds-pg1233.htm
So sidewalls can be built in a variety of different ways for tubeless, just like with normal tubed tires. When it comes to tpi, interestingly Schwalbe Marathon tyres are 65 tpi and the Teravail Rutland Tyres I use are 60 tpi, so no real difference at all. There's no mention anywhere, aside from bead construction, of tyres intended to be tubeless, having a different construction technique.
So all in all, I really don't understand why there is this perceived difference between tubed and tubeless, or if indeed there is one looking at how tires are made. The only reason I can speculate as to why my Rutland tyres don't last nearly as long as Marathons, for example, is that the rubber compound is fundamentally different. The Rutlands for example, probably use a much softer compound in order to provide good grip off-road and combined with a lot of off-road riding, they wear down much quicker. Certainly this has been my experience, that no matter what the sidewall construction of my tyres, I've never had any noticeable damage or wear on them, instead I've only ever retired my tires when the tread has become too worn or damaged. So the different tread compound is not really a component of them being tubed or tubeless, rather a result of their intended end use, or at least that's my perception.
So having a quick scout around the internet I found a number of articles pertaining to how a tyre is actually constructed. Generally you have a casing that forms the skeleton of the tire which is made of fabric. Manufacturers use the term TPI (Threads per Inch) to explain how many threads make up a single layer of fabric, anything from 60 tpi to 120. At 60 tpi the threads are thicker than 120 tpi threads. It's all explained a little bit better here:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/what-is-tpi-in-bike-tyres/
After the casing is built, there may be a layer of puncture protection put on top before an outer layer of rubber is put on, then it's all bonded together. I have a pair of Teravail Rutland tyres on my gravel bike, set up tubeless and running at 32psi. With Teravail, they offer a light and supple casing and a Durable casing for their tubeless tyres, the difference being, the durable has extra layers of sidewall and puncture protection added.
https://www.teravail.com/articles/whats-in-a-tire-all-about-casings-and-compounds-pg1233.htm
So sidewalls can be built in a variety of different ways for tubeless, just like with normal tubed tires. When it comes to tpi, interestingly Schwalbe Marathon tyres are 65 tpi and the Teravail Rutland Tyres I use are 60 tpi, so no real difference at all. There's no mention anywhere, aside from bead construction, of tyres intended to be tubeless, having a different construction technique.
So all in all, I really don't understand why there is this perceived difference between tubed and tubeless, or if indeed there is one looking at how tires are made. The only reason I can speculate as to why my Rutland tyres don't last nearly as long as Marathons, for example, is that the rubber compound is fundamentally different. The Rutlands for example, probably use a much softer compound in order to provide good grip off-road and combined with a lot of off-road riding, they wear down much quicker. Certainly this has been my experience, that no matter what the sidewall construction of my tyres, I've never had any noticeable damage or wear on them, instead I've only ever retired my tires when the tread has become too worn or damaged. So the different tread compound is not really a component of them being tubed or tubeless, rather a result of their intended end use, or at least that's my perception.
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
I can't. That was a direct quote from the book. Apologies, I thought that was clear.
Sorry!
Without getting in to the technicalities, what struck me the most was the very short lifespan of the tubeless tyres she tested. Unfortunately, there's no mention of what she expected to achieve with the tubed tyres for comparison.
Like I said, this was pre 2018 so maybe things have changed since.
While not explicit in the book, I'd bet that this was a serious topic of conversation in the circles she moved in.
I can't. That was a direct quote from the book. Apologies, I thought that was clear.
Sorry!
Without getting in to the technicalities, what struck me the most was the very short lifespan of the tubeless tyres she tested. Unfortunately, there's no mention of what she expected to achieve with the tubed tyres for comparison.
Like I said, this was pre 2018 so maybe things have changed since.
While not explicit in the book, I'd bet that this was a serious topic of conversation in the circles she moved in.
Tubeless has definitely come a long way. I ran a set of pirelli cinturato velos for 3 or 4 winters (plus any wet weather the rest of the year). Probably did around 1000-1500 miles/year on them. Excellent puncture protection as well.
Jameshow
Veteran
The problem I would have with a tubeless would be getting a tyre in and off the rim if the sealant wouldn't seal it? I have tubeless rims and getting normal tyres off is a pig I'm guessing tubeless tubes are even worse.
Sods law it would be getting dark, 5deg and pissing it down when I needed too change a tyre on a long ride / tour!!
Depends on the tyre and rim combo. With the exception of vittoria corsa next (just a really awful tyre all around IMHO), I've found most tubeless tyres I've tried to get on/off easily with my DT Swiss E1800 (road wheels for my gravel bike) and fulcrum rapid red (gravel wheelset). This includes tyres from Goodyear, Continental, Panaracer, Pirelli, and Hutchinaon.
Use DT rims as rivers says easy to fit and take off. If you can't easily put a tyre on or off a rim at home its a disaster out on the road. Buy a proper tubeless rim, old style clincher rims are slightly different as the tubeless is airtight compared to being just al lip to secure the tyre .We always carry a small bottle of sealant and a tube. Carry a presta to car valve adapter for a garage topup if needed and you can have the correct pressure.
matticus
Guru
garage topup you say?!? Doesn't sound like much of an adventure ;-)
