UK SUV Petition

[Alex321]

A 1000kg will make a considerable difference.
My own car is excessively heavy at a tonne-three quarters - nearly double the weight of a modest 60s or 70s car. Twice the momentum and KE. Many of these 4x4 luxury vehicles are another tonne again

And how many people do you know who weigh 1000Kg?

The point being made by Jody was that the pedestrian is not going to weigh much more than 100Kg. So will make virtually no difference to the kinetic energy of the vehicle hitting them.

 

[matticus]

it will impart 12070 newtons of energy

err, okay....

This is why I keep vowing not to discuss physics on the internet. Why oh why do I keep breaking this vow?!?

 

[matticus]

Probably due to only having a few meters worth of acceleration?

Do you think I'm the only cyclist to survive collision with a motor vehicle? Should we upgrade all the KSI stats to just kills??

This IS news ...

 

[Profpointy]

err, okay....

This is why I keep vowing not to discuss physics on the internet. Why oh why do I keep breaking this vow?!?

I seem to remember getting really annoyed with a TV advert campaigning for seatbelt wearing - quite reasonable in and of itself - then it claimed in accident your thrown forward with the force pf 3 elephants. That's "not even wrong" in the meaning it doesn't even make enough sense to be wrong or right

 

[matticus]

2 children killed, 16 people injured. Fence and picnic table demolished.

But vehicle mass irrelevant, speed irrelevant, engine power irrelevant. Apparently ....

 

[Jody]

Do you think I'm the only cyclist to survive collision with a motor vehicle? Should we upgrade all the KSI stats to just kills??

This IS news ...

I'm pointing out the the outcome to your accident might be affected by the little momentum the vehicle had. Given it had only a few meters of acceleration.

 

[Alex321]

2 children killed, 16 people injured. Fence and picnic table demolished.

But vehicle mass irrelevant, speed irrelevant, engine power irrelevant. Apparently ....

View attachment 716521

Any reasoning as to why you believe anybody here might suggest any of those things are irrelevant in this instance?

Engine power IS irrelevant unless the throttle jammed.

Speed is hardly ever irrelevant, and AFAIK nobody here has suggested it might be.

Weight is irrelevant when it is a collision between the vehicle and a pedestrian (or even a couple of pedestrians).

Weight is, of course, not irrelevant when it is colliding with something more substantial such as the fence/hedge and picnic table that it demolished.

 

[Alex321]

Do you think I'm the only cyclist to survive collision with a motor vehicle? Should we upgrade all the KSI stats to just kills??

This IS news ...

Why do you think anybody might possibly be suggesting any such thing?

Complete straw man "argument".

 

[matticus]

This thread is like the fossil fuel protest threads - in those, after a few posts of to-and-fro, it starts to become clear you are engaging with a climate-change denier.
I really need to learn to spot the people who simply deny logic and/or science earlier...

 

[matticus]

MEANWHILE ... does anyone want to argue AGAINST limiting bigger, more powerful vehicles on our streets,
whilst AGREEING that they do cause more [damage, deaths, pollution - pick one or more]?

Anyone?

 

[newfhouse]

err, okay....

This is why I keep vowing not to discuss physics on the internet. Why oh why do I keep breaking this vow?!?

If it don’t fit don’t force it.

 

[lazybloke]

If it don’t fit don’t force it.

Ah, I was wondering who knew the difference between mass and weight.
Quite a few people need to go back to physics class and learn what kinetic energy is directly proportional too.

 

[Rusty Nails]

MEANWHILE ... does anyone want to argue AGAINST limiting bigger, more powerful vehicles on our streets,
whilst AGREEING that they do cause more [damage, deaths, pollution - pick one or more]?

Anyone?

All sensible stuff....a lot more sensible than talking about banning SUVs from urban roads when there is apparently so much confusion about what exactly defines the difference between an SUV and a 'standard' car, and other issues like people using vehicles such as VW camper vans and people carriers as their daily transport.

 

[Jody]

MEANWHILE ... does anyone want to argue AGAINST limiting bigger, more powerful vehicles on our streets,
whilst AGREEING that they do cause more [damage, deaths, pollution - pick one or more]?

Anyone?

There are lots of things that need looking at in the grand scheme of things.

If it's pollution, there are bigger fish to fry globally than large off road cars.

If it's weight, you're going to curtail EV's. A Tesla model 3 weighs considerably more than the Defender in the OP ( almost twice it's weight) and can be 4WD

If it's power, as above. EV's are right up there with the most powerful. Tesla model 3, 490BHP. Telsa Plaid 1020BHP

If it's pedestrian safety, vehicle shape and speed travelled should be the priority.

It was a knee jerk petition based on one accident. Let's have a reasonable discussion, which includes some give and take on a situation that is not black and white. Personally I don't like Range Rovers being driven around by 1 person and don't disagree that people need dissuading from them. It's their choice though.

 

[matticus]

There are lots of things that need looking at in the grand scheme of things.

If it's pollution, there are bigger fish to fry globally than large off road cars.

If it's weight, you're going to curtail EV's. A Tesla model 3 weighs considerably more than the Defender in the OP ( almost twice it's weight) and can be 4WD

If it's power, as above. EV's are right up there with the most powerful. Tesla model 3, 490BHP. Telsa Plaid 1020BHP

If it's pedestrian safety, vehicle shape and speed travelled should be the priority.

It was a knee jerk petition based on one accident. Let's have a reasonable discussion, which includes some give and take on a situation that is not black and white. Personally I don't like Range Rovers being driven around by 1 person and don't disagree that people need dissuading from them. It's their choice though.

Are you actually prepared to look at these? Or are they all just "yeah but whatabout?"s