Unauthorised absence from school
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vernon
Harder than Ronnie Pickering
- Location
- Meanwood, Leeds
That absence is indesputable. Mini CK was not present in school. It should be recorded as an authorised absence.
coffeejo
Ælfrēd
- Location
- West Somerset
FFS is all I can say about that. Some friends experienced something similar a while back. Their youngest is terminally ill so they get respite at a hospice in Devon every so often. The school is fine to mark her absences as authorised but won't do the same for her brother.
My friends have long since come to the conclusion that a break from the stress of everyday life is much more important than anything the school have to say but that doesn't stop them and everyone else being "a bit" grumpy with the school. Thankfully they're wonderful in almost every other way, including coping with the son's inevitable behavioural problems but even so...Mandragora
Senior Member
I know where you're coming from, and appreciate your annoyance - but for whoever's charged with overseeing attendance, it's a really tricky one - they're in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. Yes, schools are under the cosh over attendance. Yes, they have to get figures up to (what I personally think are) increasingly unrealistic figures. I know, and believe you when you say that you've been supportive, and strict about attendance in the past, and are miffed on this occasion. But, the flip side of this is that, if it's like most other DofE events, staff will likely have given up free time; worked out of hours, overseen a demanding event and pitched up for school the next day. Of the kids involved, I'm imagining a significant proportion of the kids who took part in the event then didn't show up for school the next day, and I think that this is where your problem lies.
One case I can remember concerned a weekend trip abroad which came back at 7pm, and a significant number of pupils simply didn't turn up for lessons the next day. The teacher who ran it had sacrificed a weekend with their own young children to take the group. Those who didn't come in were heard discussing that they were going to have the next day off. Parents rang in saying their child was 'tired' - it amounted to about 1/3 of the kids who'd been away for the weekend, and, to be honest, felt like a pretty poor return for the member of staff who'd put their own family life to one side in order to plan and lead the trip.
At that point, though I hated to do it, I felt I had no choice other than to get on the phone and ring the families concerned and explain that while we were prepared to 'authorise' a late arrival in school if they really were so overtired, however, a 7pm return really could not justify a full day's absence from lessons, and in those circumstances, we would not be willing to authorise any absence after the cut off point (11am, I think), unless there was some particular medical circumstance that was a factor. I wasn't the most popular teacher around, and it was one of the sh*ttier days of that academic year, but hey ho. As I say, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Please don't think I'm implying anything about your own child's circumstances - I really do believe and understand you, and sympathise with how miffed you must be feeling - but I just wanted to explain a bit about the other side of the picture. Would it be possible, perhaps, to ask to speak to the head, one to one? They themselves may not be entirely comfortable with every element of the 'broad brush strokes' approach that someone feels they've had to take here.
Computerised records can be amended - of course they can. However, by the same token schools are not required to 'authorise' absences that they are unwilling to authorise, even if a parental letter has been sent in explaining the reason for non-attendance.
One case I can remember concerned a weekend trip abroad which came back at 7pm, and a significant number of pupils simply didn't turn up for lessons the next day. The teacher who ran it had sacrificed a weekend with their own young children to take the group. Those who didn't come in were heard discussing that they were going to have the next day off. Parents rang in saying their child was 'tired' - it amounted to about 1/3 of the kids who'd been away for the weekend, and, to be honest, felt like a pretty poor return for the member of staff who'd put their own family life to one side in order to plan and lead the trip.
At that point, though I hated to do it, I felt I had no choice other than to get on the phone and ring the families concerned and explain that while we were prepared to 'authorise' a late arrival in school if they really were so overtired, however, a 7pm return really could not justify a full day's absence from lessons, and in those circumstances, we would not be willing to authorise any absence after the cut off point (11am, I think), unless there was some particular medical circumstance that was a factor. I wasn't the most popular teacher around, and it was one of the sh*ttier days of that academic year, but hey ho. As I say, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Please don't think I'm implying anything about your own child's circumstances - I really do believe and understand you, and sympathise with how miffed you must be feeling - but I just wanted to explain a bit about the other side of the picture. Would it be possible, perhaps, to ask to speak to the head, one to one? They themselves may not be entirely comfortable with every element of the 'broad brush strokes' approach that someone feels they've had to take here.
Computerised records can be amended - of course they can. However, by the same token schools are not required to 'authorise' absences that they are unwilling to authorise, even if a parental letter has been sent in explaining the reason for non-attendance.
Andy_R
Hard of hearing..I said Herd of Herring..oh FFS..
- Location
- County Durham
ermm...I run a scout troop, and I know exactly how tired the kids are after coming off a weekend of expedition. Whilst we can pick it off, the kids can't. They just don't have the same amount of stamina that an adult has. Simples. I can walk for 20 miles a day for 2 sucessive days and still have reserves, but your average 14/15 year old is still growing and just doesn't have the ability to stay at that level of endurance.
Mandragora
Senior Member
So, participating on a weekend when they have school (including GCSE courses) the next day will compromise their learning, is what you're saying.
In that case, I presume you arrange expedition weekends for the first weekends of half term holidays and during other appropriate weekends during the school year where there's no school the next day (longer holiday times; Friday night to Sunday morning events etc etc), so that the kids can engage in these worthwhile activities and also attend school. I hope you can at least see where the school is coming from, which is the only point I was trying to make.
Andy_R
Hard of hearing..I said Herd of Herring..oh FFS..
- Location
- County Durham
It's not quite that simple - people (leaders with appropriate permits and helpers) have to have availability, campsites have to have availability, kit needs to be available, etc., etc. Sometimes this gloriously comes together on a weekend at the start of a half term or during a longer school holiday (most scout groups don't operate during the school holidays though), but it's very uncommon.
Mandragora
Senior Member
I know. My post was a bit tongue in cheek. I don't mean to torment you, or wind you up, so this is the last thing I'll say on this one. It's a balancing act - of course schools (and teachers) want pupils to have enrichment opportunities, but at the same time they're legally obliged to ensure high attendance rates, which is also a parental obligation. Where there was a bit of wriggle room in the legislation and interpretations beforehand, there really isn't now. If you have a whole slew of pupils not in the day after an event, then you do have to put down a marker and challenge that. If the enrichment opportunity is so exhausting that they really can't attend school the next day, then that needs to be factored in at the planning stage and appropriate adjustments made. In my case, it was that we allowed them to sign in a bit later that day, but expected them to attend from breaktime onwards.
As we'd never had any instances of kids, frankly, taking the mickey, beforehand, what we did next time there was a trip out, was to make it clear that we expected full attendance in school the day after, right from the get-go and in all documentation, too, and since then it's never been an issue. But we had to 'draw a line in the sand' and it wasn't a comfortable experience for us or for many of the parents. I think that this is probably what's happened in the case of the OP's son, too, and he's been caught up in it unwittingly this time.
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swee'pea99
Squire
Well done. It is of course a bugger for the schools to find themselves caught between a rock and a hard place, but when all's said and done their first responsibility is to kids and parents, not to bureaucrats and politicians.
KneesUp
Guru
I agree with him - the phrasing "regular attendance" means exactly that. If the DofE want it to mean something else - such as "attends whenever possible, with the only exceptions being as outlined in sub section blah de blah" they should have written that.
I know for a fact that the DofE have been wary of the way it is phrased for a long time because they refused to answer my questions to them about that very phrase several years ago. They could have made it clearer and saved the cost of this case, but they didn't.
I also object to the assumptions that
1) education can only take place in school
2) headteachers cannot exercise discretion
3) missing time at school is harmful to the child's education
None of these are necessarily the case.
Why do you think he is a "nobber" @User
I know for a fact that the DofE have been wary of the way it is phrased for a long time because they refused to answer my questions to them about that very phrase several years ago. They could have made it clearer and saved the cost of this case, but they didn't.
I also object to the assumptions that
1) education can only take place in school
2) headteachers cannot exercise discretion
3) missing time at school is harmful to the child's education
None of these are necessarily the case.
Why do you think he is a "nobber" @User
KneesUp
Guru
Ah. I thought you might have an objection based on the case.He keep claiming he isn't running a campaign - when he clearly is (unless he suggests that, for example, his exhortations to the voters of Suffolk re elections on 4 May weren't intended to suggest they should not vote for those councillors who supported fines).
Next he'll be claiming that his company, School Fines Refunds Limited, isn't there to make him money.
I'm not sure why a semantic argument about whether 'insisting that the word 'regular' means 'regular' as opposed to meaning 'what the DofE thinks it means' is the same as 'running a campaign' (on which clearly you have different views) makes him a "nobber"
What are your views on term time absence?
KneesUp
Guru
"without lawful excuse" is not a very useful description of what you think acceptable given that we're debating the law in question - and 'being lawful' is not the same as being correct in any case. If the law said "everyone called Peter can have Wednesdays off" the law would be incorrect, for example.
Take the example of poor old ChildA, who is so often discussed in courts. Child A is ahead of where (s)he is 'expected' to be. Child A's teacher has to prepare work especially for Child A because (s)he is so far ahead of the rest of the class, thus giving the teacher less time to spend with the other pupils. Child A would dearly love to experience the longest day at the far north of Scotland, to see what it is like, or would like to go to Stonehenge on the solstice, or some other 'enriching' experience that can only take place during school time. Why do you feel Child A is better served by going to school to spend a lot of the day being unchallenged and working alone whilst being distracted by the teacher trying to teach the rest of the class things (s)he already knows?
Or, to take another example - Child B will never get a holiday if (s)he doesn't go in term time because his parents are in the London police force, and cannot take leave during the summer holiday. Why is Child B best off in school?
U
User482
Guest
In my experience, parents have the unfortunate habit of inventing spurious justifications for taking their children out of school, so they can have a cheaper trip to Euro Disney.
KneesUp
Guru
What is spurious about taking children to experience things which they enjoy, that they probably wouldn't experience, for a tiny percentage of their childhood?
