Unauthorised absence from school

[KneesUp]

So, if you take your child out for two weeks and they fall behind on a key topic, you are happy for the school to leave them to flounder?

You're unnecessary narrowing down the options there. If my child were behind to such an extent that she couldn't function in school I'd ask the school what they'd missed and teach them myself - but you don't give me that choice But given that my child is currently "exceeding expectations" then I would imagine the school would just put her into one of the other groups in her class for a while. As I've said before, schools should be differentiating anyway.

 

[PK99]

You're unnecessary narrowing down the options there. If my child were behind to such an extent that she couldn't function in school I'd ask the school what they'd missed and teach them myself - but you don't give me that choice But given that my child is currently "exceeding expectations" then I would imagine the school would just put her into one of the other groups in her class for a while. As I've said before, schools should be differentiating anyway.

From experience as a Governor, and observation as a parent in the playground over 14 years, it is the kids least likely to get the sort of home support you cite who are the most likely to have weeks out for holidays. Anecdotal tales of spending the longest day in Northern Scotland are all well and good - a week in the hotel pool in Majorca is a different matter.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

We've never taken ours out of school but I had a bunch of leave to use up that didn't fit with their school hols so we applied for time out with an explanation as to why, both schools said no. So we wrote and told then we were going anyway, which we did, no further action taken. Plus they had a great time and saw some amazing stuff in a different culture, soon caught back up at school so they actually benefitted I rec.

 

[rich p]

We've never taken ours out of school but I had a bunch of leave to use up that didn't fit with their school hols so we applied for time out with an explanation as to why, both schools said no. So we wrote and told then we were going anyway, which we did, no further action taken. Plus they had a great time and saw some amazing stuff in a different culture, soon caught back up at school so they actually benefitted I rec.

Your kids seeing you pissed on Singha and flapping about in the sea, could hardly be called culture...

 

[Tin Pot]

From experience as a Governor, and observation as a parent in the playground over 14 years, it is the kids least likely to get the sort of home support you cite who are the most likely to have weeks out for holidays. Anecdotal tales of spending the longest day in Northern Scotland are all well and good - a week in the hotel pool in Majorca is a different matter.

Which is why the law cannot be the broad brush for this.

Assault is a crime no matter the circumstances because hitting people damages them, regardless.

Taking kids out of school does *not* damage kids regardless.

Maybe it has to be combined with poor support from their parents, the type of holiday, or for multiple weeks, or whatever, to be damaging - but it is not simply the case that having any time out of school causes harm.

 

[smutchin]

Which is why the law cannot be the broad brush for this.

In the real world, which is actually quite different to Daily Mail land, cases are generally judged on their individual merits - my son had one or two unauthorised absences on his school record but we were never fined for them. Also see @threebikesmcginty's earlier post. Jon Platt got stung because he was taking the piss. And now because he was too pigheaded to admit he was in the wrong, he's ended up with a £12k court bill.

#schadenfreude

 

[Inertia]

If kids are off sick then the school should help the child to catch up and not be left behind. Taking them on holiday out of school during term time is a choice: which creates extra work for teachers, who we are told are over worked as it is.

Kneesup is probably a responsible parent who would do the neceassry teaching outside of term time but there are plenty who are not. There are parents who would say they will do it with no intention of doing it, our responsiblity is to make sure those kids get the education they need, not to make sure parents can save money on a holiday.

I do think the increase in prices for holidays is outrageous but I dont think this is the solution.

 

[smutchin]

I do think the increase in prices for holidays is outrageous but I dont think this is the solution.

Exactly right. Nor is it a justification.

 

[summerdays]

2) They may know it already. They could go into a lower group to catch up.

And if they are already in the lowest group.... should they go down a year or hold up the progress of those in that group that are the ones that most need to make progress?

 

[threebikesmcginty]

Your kids seeing you pissed on Singha and flapping about in the sea, could hardly be called culture...

Worked for me, gramps.

 

[Tin Pot]

In the real world, which is actually quite different to Daily Mail land, cases are generally judged on their individual merits - my son had one or two unauthorised absences on his school record but we were never fined for them. Also see @threebikesmcginty's earlier post. Jon Platt got stung because he was taking the piss. And now because he was too pigheaded to admit he was in the wrong, he's ended up with a £12k court bill.

#schadenfreude

The point is the law, no one is talking about the papers.

I live my life within the law, it's important to me and it's important to me that others respect the law. That respect is undermined when the state decides it's going to criminalise reasonable social behaviours it doesn't like. It's undermined when being a criminal is not shocking or shameful because the state has decided to criminalise the population.

The state may not like me taking my kids out of school, but in no way shape or form should this be criminal activity.

 

[smutchin]

The state may not like me taking my kids out of school, but in no way shape or form should this be criminal activity.

A fine for truancy is a fixed penalty notice, same as you get for parking where you shouldn't. It is not a criminal matter.

 

[Pale Rider]

A fine for truancy is a fixed penalty notice, same as you get for parking where you shouldn't. It is not a criminal matter.

A bit more research may be needed there.

Failing to send a child to school is a criminal offence under one of the Education Acts.

In persistent cases - lots of unauthorised absences - parents have been sent to prison for it.

This guy was fined at magistrates' court, presumably after a trial given it's unlikely he will have admitted the offence.

As such, he has been dealt with as a criminal.

 

[smutchin]

A bit more research may be needed there.

Failing to send a child to school is a criminal offence under one of the Education Acts.

OK, I've done a bit more research and I stand corrected.

One thing my research turned up was that you can't be convicted of the offence if you pay the fine within 42 days.

ETA: number of people given prison sentences for their children's truancy in 2014 (latest available figures) was 18, out of a total of 16,430 prosecutions. That includes all forms of truancy, not just taking the kids away for a holiday during term time. It strikes me that the balance is fair. Clearly truancy is a real problem, but the punishments on the whole seem proportionate and justified to me. I haven't looked up details of those 18 cases that ended in a prison sentence, but their small number means they are exceptional by definition.

 

[Pale Rider]

OK, I've done a bit more research and I stand corrected.

One thing my research turned up was that you can't be convicted of the offence if you pay the fine within 42 days.

The local education authority is the prosecutor in these cases, and much will depend on their attitude.

Most of the cases which reach magistrates' court are chronic, the child has rarely attended school over a prolonged period.

Prosecution being a last resort, after lots of informal - out of court - efforts to sort the problem have failed.

This case was a one-off, no doubt the guy could have paid the fine and no one would have been any the wiser.

One could admire his principled stand, but it does illustrate the risk of using the law to make a point.