Uninsured

[Crankarm]

Well, that's easy for us to say. On the other hand, if you need to carry kids or a lot of stuff and you live out in the sticks and you're in a hurry or the weather is lousy, or you don't happen to be a committed cyclist... The private car has it's uses, and that's one of them. I have a friend who lives 16 miles out of York. Yeah, I can ride there, and back, I'd allow an hour to hour and a half each way, and I wouldn't want to do it in the dark, because the road is winding and narrow and drivers tend to get up to 60 as quickly as they can. In that situation, I wouldn't begrudge anyone the use of a car.

Lightweight........... better planning Arch. If you put your mind to it you could do it.

I live in the sticks, I often carry a heavy load, I cycle at night and the weather has been crap this summer. Out here on the long straight roads some of the closing speeds between cars are 180-200mph and you're caught in the middle.

 

[Arch]

Lightweight........... better planning Arch. If you put your mind to it you could do it.

I live in the sticks, I often carry a heavy load, I cycle at night and the weather has been crap this summer. Out here on the long straight roads some of the closing speeds between cars are 180-200mph and you're caught in the middle.

Well bully for you. And yes, I probably could do it if I had to. But a lot of people couldn't. And they are the people for whom the car is a sensible invention. I'm more interested in changing people who feel the need to drive 500 yards for a paper.

Lightweight? Yeah right. Sensible and know my limits, some people might say. Oh and I haven't owned a car for about 12 years now, before you accuse me of being motor-dependent.

 

[Amanda P]

A £200 fine and points for no insurance? That's a joke! How's that going to deter anyone?

Operating a car is a serious responsibility, and we should take seriously those who show that they don't take it as one. The present fines and points make it seem like a game, and drivers treat it as one (that and speeding, but that's another rant...)

Why should you get points for having no insurance? Why not simply relieve the driver of any license they may have at the first offience? If caught a second time, prison.

 

[Arch]

Why should you get points for having no insurance? Why not simply relieve the driver of any license they may have at the first offence? If caught a second time, prison.

It's a good point. The only problem I see is that if someone is willing to drive uninsured, are they going to be worried about driving unlicenced? It's like when kids get given driving bans before they even have licences.

I guess that sounds defeatist, but I do feel a bit defeatist about the whole car-centric thing at the moment. Part of me says yes, stamp on people, hard, but part of me thinks if they don't give a toss, they won't think about getting caught. Really, attitudes have to change, people have to see that driving a car is a serious, responsible business, not to be taken lightly. But attitudes are the hardest slowest thing to change - there are still people out there who think it's ok to drink and drive or not wear a seatbelt, after how many years of clampdowns, campaigns and law changes?

 

[Amanda P]

there are still people out there who think it's ok to drink and drive or not wear a seatbelt, after how many years of clampdowns, campaigns and law changes?

But you'd agree that it's fewer people that it used to be, wouldn't you?

A culture change has occurred with regard to drink-driving. It could occur with regard to insurance, and indeed driving attitudes in general. The best time to start would be about thirty years ago, but the second best time is now.

(I think I heard the "pause for thought" guy say something like that on Wogan's show yesterday morning...)

It just seems to me that we treat driving as a game. If you're caught speeding, you pay a fine with monopoly money, take a slap on the wrist, and carry straight on. You probably won't stop speeding, you'll just take more care not to get caught.

But driving is not just a game - it's life and death, quite literally.

If I were caught behaving irresponsibly, with, say, a loaded shotgun, I would expect to find that, at the very least, I was never allowed to own one again.

If I'm caught behaving irresponsibly with an equally dangerous weapon (my car), I can expect to pay £60 and be sent on my way. Only if I'm stupid enough to be caught four times within three years am I in any serious danger of any irksome penalty (a driving ban).

Even more amazing, if I go to court to plead my case, and say "M'lud, if you take away my driving license, I'll lose my job", the magistrate is quite likely to take this as mitigation, and consider not banning me on the strength of it.

And yet it seems to me that a magistrate should take this argument as a further and better case why I should be banned - I knew that a ban might mean losing my job, I'd had three or four previous chances to reform my behaviour, but I broke the law anyway. Anyone that stupid should not be allowed to continue driving.

/rant

 

[wafflycat]

Even more amazing, if I go to court to plead my case, and say "M'lud, if you take away my driving license, I'll lose my job", the magistrate is quite likely to take this as mitigation, and consider not banning me on the strength of it.

And yet it seems to me that a magistrate should take this argument as a further and better case why I should be banned - I knew that a ban might mean losing my job, I'd had three or four previous chances to reform my behaviour, but I broke the law anyway. Anyone that stupid should not be allowed to continue driving.

I agree. If holding a driving licence is so important to you then surely the onus is to make sure you don't do anything stupid enough to have it taken away from you.

 

[Arch]

You're quite right, and a more natural optimist than me... Trouble is, I'm mentally halfway out of the country already...

Just pray the oil runs out sooner rather than later, then we will be the ones still capable of travelling more than 5 miles.

And on the bright side, 'they' never have invented the hovercar like they promised, so we only have to dodge idiots in two dimensions.

The thing about it being life and death is quite right - the trouble is that it isn't to most people. Somehow, despite the numbers killed each year, most people, no hang on, maybe not most, but a large number of people, are probably never affected by a road death, or if they are they don't seem able to relate it to the right or wrong sort of behaviour.

 

[User482]

3 people a week killed by uninsured drivers.... apparently..

3 a week .. strewth

still makes more sense to rant (any day recently in the DMail) against uninsured cyclists and assorted misdemeanours and a call to the police to enforce all laws.. (including spoke reflectors..??)

ah well.. you just really want to be British sometimes

There were 2538 people killed in road accidents last year, so 3 per week would mean 6% of the total. If the total number of uninsured drivers stands at 10%, then it would suggest that insured drivers are more dangerous than uninsured.

 

[Arch]

I agree. If holding a driving licence is so important to you then surely the onus is to make sure you don't do anything stupid enough to have it taken away from you.

<whine> But it's my human right..... </whine>

I agree, how hard can it be to keep a clean driving licence. I've managed it for 22 years so far, and my Mum, well, I'm not sure when she passed, but it must be 50 years now.

(despite this ability however, we're both also capable of actually walking places too...)

Here's a question. Has the proportion of bad/thoughtless/careless drivers increased, or is it just that with more and more cars on the road, we come across the idiots more often?

 

[tyred]

I think people are less likely to think of others nowadays. People move around more, many don't even know who their neighbours are, the breakdown of community life, etc.

 

[Arch]

There were 2538 people killed in road accidents last year, so 3 per week would mean 6% of the total. If the total number of uninsured drivers stands at 10%, then it would suggest that insured drivers are more dangerous than uninsured.

There's a sort of logic to that - if you're uninsured, you don't want to get into a situation where that becomes apparent, like an accident. Insured drivers can rest assured that insurance covers them and they are, at leats in that respect, legal.

(Obviously, that doesn't account for the law breaking attitude of the uninsured, but I wonder how many uninsured drivers are trying to be careful to avoid getting noticed.)

 

[wafflycat]

Not sure, Arch. But whether I'm walking, cycling or driving, I'm fairly sure I see more incidents of bad driving about the place. MrWC is of the same opinion. There's rarely a day he comes back from being out & about seeing clients and he hasn't got some story of a bit of bad driving he's seen along the way. Maybe I'm getting into full-on Victor Meldrew mode, but there does seem to be more of an attitide that somehow holding a driving licence is a right rather than a privilege earned.

 

[User482]

There's a sort of logic to that - if you're uninsured, you don't want to get into a situation where that becomes apparent, like an accident. Insured drivers can rest assured that insurance covers them and they are, at leats in that respect, legal.

(Obviously, that doesn't account for the law breaking attitude of the uninsured, but I wonder how many uninsured drivers are trying to be careful to avoid getting noticed.)

Or it could be that uninsured drivers cover fewer miles? I don't know the answer, the numbers just struck me as odd.

 

[Brains]

We had a guy painting our house t'other week. Known him for years. He did not turn up one day mid job, it turned out that he had pulled by the local plod outside his kids nursary school for not having a seatbelt on said kid.

They then checked his Insurance and licence. Car is fully insured, What licence ? He has been in this country since the mid 1990's and been driving in the UK on a long expired Yugoslav driving Licence for over a decade.

The car was then impounded, he had to get a ligitimate driver with valid insurance to pick it up and pay £200.

We all had a go at him, one of his mates even went to the post office and got him the Driving test forms. However do I think he will take the test ? NO !

He will flog the car, get another and keep on driving.

£200 is simply not an incentive to sort out the problem.
A week in the nick on the other hand might be.

 

[fossyant]

There's a sort of logic to that - if you're uninsured, you don't want to get into a situation where that becomes apparent

(Obviously, that doesn't account for the law breaking attitude of the uninsured, but I wonder how many uninsured drivers are trying to be careful to avoid getting noticed.)

Quick answer, the un-insured don't give a damn anyway.... "simples".....as the meerkat says....