Upgrade R wheel for touring

[sgw]

I am frequently breaking spokes on the rear wheel of my entry level hybrid. I tour with full camping kit (30kg?) on rear panniers and inevitably find myself on far rougher tracks than perhaps I should.

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to an effective upgrade for my no name rear wheel on a very tight budget.

700c 7spd 32mm tyre

 

[andym]

30kg????

The quality of the wheel build is as important as the components. I've been very happy with the wheels I've had built by Spa Cycles and Harry Rowland. For off-road, and a rear wheel I would advise going for Rigida Sputnik rims. A good wheel should last you a long time - but unfortunately won't be cheap (especially a rear wheel). Don't expect much change from £100. But even if your present bike is cheap, you can always transfer your wheel to another bike when/if you can afford to upgrade. So think of it as an investment.

 

[willem]

Once you have broken one or more spokes, the others have an increasing chance to suffer the same fate. So chances are you need a new wheel. If you want something reliable, get a handbuilt wheel with 36 spokes, a heavy duty rim such as the Sputnik/SP19 and a Shimano LX hub. These are for 8 speed minimum now, but with a spacer you can fit an existing 7 speed cassette (if you do indeed have a cassette hub - some entry level bikes still use 7 sp freewheel hubs). Alternatively, fit an 8 sp cassette and do not use the smallest sprocket.
If you want to avert future disaster, reduce your load significantly, and fit the widest possible tyre. 32 mm is really too narrow for this much weight.
Willem

 

[old donald]

Second the experience and service provided by Spa cycles - whilst my budget was probably bigger - the wheels they put together were superb and have given my 12 year old touring bike a new lease of life - it goes like stink now.

 

[sgw]

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately I think getting a wheel built might be out of the question financially.

What are the minimum features I should be looking for? I was thinking at least a known branded hub and rim with stainless spokes. Should I reject anything less than 36 spoke or would even a decent 32 offer a worthwhile improvement?

I think almost anything would offer some improvement. I will keep an eye out for something second hand around £50 if possible as that is what my local shop want for a new "factory" wheel that they think would be a decent upgrade.

---

"30kg???" "greatly reduce my load"

I realise I am asking a lot from my current inadequate equipment but I have been greatly surprised by how much such basic kit can endure. You are both most certainly right but if it is a question of making do or staying home, I will keep replacing spokes.

While 30kg might be a maximum I am sure my usual load for 2 or more days away from "civilization" must be at least 25kg. Water alone at 3kg per day! Food and cookset perhaps 3.5kg. Tent, mat and sleeping bag in drybag at least another 3.5kg. Thats 13kg before tools, spares, beer, panniers, binoculars, camera, spare batteries, medicinal brandy , book, maps, cloths, emergency kit...etc, etc...

 

[doog]

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately I think getting a wheel built might be out of the question financially.

What are the minimum features I should be looking for? I was thinking at least a known branded hub and rim with stainless spokes. Should I reject anything less than 36 spoke or would even a decent 32 offer a worthwhile improvement?

I think almost anything would offer some improvement. I will keep an eye out for something second hand around £50 if possible as that is what my local shop want for a new "factory" wheel that they think would be a decent upgrade.

---

"30kg???" "greatly reduce my load"

I realise I am asking a lot from my current inadequate equipment but I have been greatly surprised by how much such basic kit can endure. You are both most certainly right but if it is a question of making do or staying home, I will keep replacing spokes.

While 30kg might be a maximum I am sure my usual load for 2 or more days away from "civilization" must be at least 25kg. Water alone at 3kg per day! Food and cookset perhaps 3.5kg. Tent, mat and sleeping bag in drybag at least another 3.5kg. Thats 13kg before tools, spares, beer, panniers, binoculars, camera, spare batteries, medicinal brandy , book, maps, cloths, emergency kit...etc, etc...

Parker international are doing hand built rear 36 spoke sputniks with a tiagra 4500 hub from £53

http://www.parker-in...Rear-Wheel.html

Will fit a 7 speed with a spacer according to this

http://www.raleigh.c...ls.aspx?id=2993

Ive purchased a rear 36 spoke open pro from them a few months ago and cant fault the build quality...delivery was about 2 weeks

 

[sgw]

Just looked at Spa Cycles sputnik/shimano wheels as you all suggested. They do indeed look like an excelent and very tempting solution.

I can't... shouldn't... might... probably will order them.


Now what about Deore or LX?, it's only another £10 (that I can't afford).

 

[willem]

Tiagra is a road hub, so 130 mm wide, and not the 135 needed on almost any touring bike. LX is only 10 pounds more, but there is nothing wrong with Deore. A good rim (Sputnik is sturdy and affordable), and somewhat better building quality are more important than LX rather than Deore. Go for 36 spokes.
As for weight, there have been quite a few discussions here and on the CTC forum, and I don't need to repeat what I wrote in detail. Suffice it to say that I do believe that for most European destinations in summer a packed weight of 15 kilo is easily achievable with moderately lightweight gear. Of course, with a tight budget you cannot replace any of your current gear, but you can leave some at home, or for example choose the lightest items in your wardrobe. Get the scales out, and you will be amazed by the differences between items like trousers or shirts.
Enjoy,
Willem

 

[bikepacker]

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately I think getting a wheel built might be out of the question financially.

What are the minimum features I should be looking for? I was thinking at least a known branded hub and rim with stainless spokes. Should I reject anything less than 36 spoke or would even a decent 32 offer a worthwhile improvement?

I think almost anything would offer some improvement. I will keep an eye out for something second hand around £50 if possible as that is what my local shop want for a new "factory" wheel that they think would be a decent upgrade.

---

"30kg???" "greatly reduce my load"

I realise I am asking a lot from my current inadequate equipment but I have been greatly surprised by how much such basic kit can endure. You are both most certainly right but if it is a question of making do or staying home, I will keep replacing spokes.

While 30kg might be a maximum I am sure my usual load for 2 or more days away from "civilization" must be at least 25kg. Water alone at 3kg per day! Food and cookset perhaps 3.5kg. Tent, mat and sleeping bag in drybag at least another 3.5kg. Thats 13kg before tools, spares, beer, panniers, binoculars, camera, spare batteries, medicinal brandy , book, maps, cloths, emergency kit...etc, etc...

What is your current hub? If you can get to me (near Worcester) I will have a look and if hub is okay I could rebuild the wheel with Sapim spokes and Sputnik rim.

 

[sgw]

Thank you all for the input and suggestions.

In the cold light of day I have decided I can't afford the Spa wheelset, lovely as it is. Also as my front wheel is already upgraded and not giving any trouble I don't relay need to change that.

My options seem to be...

doog's suggestion of Parkers sputnik with a tiagra 4500 hub for £53.
Or my local shop building me a Mavic 36 spoke 319 with an STX hub and DB spokes for £45.

I like to buy local if I can, how does the mavic/STX compare with the Sputnik/105?

My other concern is that my current 7spd cogs will fit as I don't want to add another £20 - £30 to the bill. Can I confirm that my current one is indeed a splined fit without actually dismantling it. It's marked - MF - ZH SIS 37-7.

---

Willem

Your suggested 15kg sounds great and might well be easily achieved by some people in certain circumstances, credit cards are indeed very light. Unfortunately in my own circumstances I have spent both money on equipment and time with scales to achieve the weights I carry now. My best would be perhaps 20kg but this would be very restrictive and inadequate for my usual trips. Touring with a campsite or even a BB waiting at the end of the day is a totally different proposition to my own quests for a self-sufficient escape to the wilds.

I only take one change of clothes and these are all lightweight. My camping kit is as light as it could be while remaining sufficiently durable and my liquid intake is dictated by both health needs and habit.

bikepacker

Thank you for your generous offer.

I think the consensus is though that my current hub would be a waste of decent components, not to mention your time and skill.

 

[willem]

I appreciate the budget constraints, but I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not a credit card tourer, and I cook my own meals. Anyway, there is a technicality that I want you to be very aware of, and that is hub width (oln). Nearly all modern touring bikes now have 135 mm hubs, such as the Shimano mtb range. Road hubs such as Tiagra or 105 are 130 mm wide. Older hubs can be 120 mm (5 sp from the 70's or 126 six and seven speed freewheel). I think that just as you need to know if the 7 sp sprockets you have are from a freewheel hub or a cassette hub - both is possible, see Sheldon Brown's site for pictures to spot the difference - you also need to know how wide your current hub is. This is measured inside the drop outs. You do not want to waste yor money buying a wheel that does not fit.
Willem

 

[doog]

I suggested the 4500 tiagra because in his own words he has an 'entry level hybrid', he doesnt have a touring bike. Many hybrids are based on road bike specs, my post was to point him towards the relatively cheap prices available for hand built wheels, clearly the OP needs to make a few measurements

or pop into his LBS and get it sorted.

 

[sgw]

but I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not a credit card tourer, Willem

Didn't mean to suggest that at all willem. I have read enough of your posts to realise that you know what you are talking about re lightweight touring. In fact I have just downloaded your pdf and will read it carefully, probably very carefully after Babelfish has finished mangling it.

Thanks also for the advice re dropout width too. I have had a quick look and think they are 135mm but difficult to measure accurately. I will check it tomorrow when I have the wheel out.

 

[willem]

Ah you found the Dutch pdf on what you need for a first cycle touring holiday.... I rather like that one. It started as a talk with Powerpoint slides for a trade fair on cycle touring, held every year in Amsterdam, and with more than 20000 visitors (cycle touring is big in Holland)! My take there is that you do not necessarily need a new and expensive bike to enjoy a cycling holiday. You may have something quite suitable in the shed already. So I discuss what Dutch people may have in that shed. And I encourage them to travel light. You should see these retired Dutch couples cycling all over Europe, but with a full load of front and rear panniers each. I guess because that is what every bike and outdoor shop told them they needed (more turnover for the shop). So I tell them how they can spend less (though most are pretty well heeled) and enjoy the cycling more.

7 speed hubs can be confusing, as this is the number of cogs that was used in both the last generation of freewheel hubs and in the first of the cassette hubs. They also exist in various widths, from 126 through 130 to 135 mm. So you will only know by looking carefully and by measuring.

Good luck,
Willem

 

[andym]

Thank you all for the input and suggestions.

In the cold light of day I have decided I can't afford the Spa wheelset, lovely as it is. Also as my front wheel is already upgraded and not giving any trouble I don't relay need to change that.

My options seem to be...

doog's suggestion of Parkers sputnik with a tiagra 4500 hub for £53.
Or my local shop building me a Mavic 36 spoke 319 with an STX hub and DB spokes for £45.

I like to buy local if I can, how does the mavic/STX compare with the Sputnik/105?

My other concern is that my current 7spd cogs will fit as I don't want to add another £20 - £30 to the bill. Can I confirm that my current one is indeed a splined fit without actually dismantling it. It's marked - MF - ZH SIS 37-7.

---

Willem

Your suggested 15kg sounds great and might well be easily achieved by some people in certain circumstances, credit cards are indeed very light. Unfortunately in my own circumstances I have spent both money on equipment and time with scales to achieve the weights I carry now. My best would be perhaps 20kg but this would be very restrictive and inadequate for my usual trips. Touring with a campsite or even a BB waiting at the end of the day is a totally different proposition to my own quests for a self-sufficient escape to the wilds.

I only take one change of clothes and these are all lightweight. My camping kit is as light as it could be while remaining sufficiently durable and my liquid intake is dictated by both health needs and habit.

bikepacker

Thank you for your generous offer.

I think the consensus is though that my current hub would be a waste of decent components, not to mention your time and skill.

The 319 looks like a reasonable rim. It's lighter than the Sputnik - does that mean it's less strong (less metal) - dunno.

I did a quick search for STX and according to wikipedia it was a predecessor to the Deore groupset. So I'm puzzled. Maybe you mean SLX?

As willem says it's essential to get the right type of hub to go with your frame (assuming its' an aluminium frame). You need to check the width between the two dropouts. Buying a Tiagra hub if the width is 135mm could be a surefire way to waste your money. If in doubt, the shop/wheelbuilder should be able to advise (ditto on the cassette).

I'm puzzled as to why changing the front wheel would be a consideration - Spa sell rear wheels only. A handbuilt rear wheel with a Deore hub would cost you £80. Before you make a decision make sure you are comparing like with like. Getting a decent wheel with a cheapo hub that doesn't last would be a false economy. I appreciate that money is tight, but equally bear in mind the maxim 'buy cheap, buy twice'.

I'm also puzzled about your equipment weight. If money is tight then you are stuck with what you've got, but here (off the top of my head) are my estimates of weights for medium-price medium weight equipment (from say Decathlon):

- sleeping bag and mat - 1.5kg
- two-person tent - 2.5kg
- cooking equipment - 1kg
- panniers 2kg

So you have a lot of headroom for food/water/clothes etc