Upgrade R wheel for touring

[frank9755]

My advice would be to get a cheap but strong, new wheel. Something like an Alvio hub with 36 spokes.
It sounds like your current wheel is past it - probably the damage to some of the spokes has weakened others and they are now queueing up to go.

Previously I would have said get something expensive, a cheap wheel won't last, etc, but my experience has made me change my mind.

My rear hub went just before I went on a tour to Albania. I called Spa, but they couldn't do me a new wheel in time. I had one in the garage that I had bought from eBay for a project that didn't happen (alvio hub, 36 sp, no-name rim). It had cost about £40. Needs must, so I used it. It was fine. Now done 2,000 miles on it. This included about 200 of rough off-road / mountain trails in Albania (incl 1000m off-road ascent / descent with c.12kg in rear panniers!). The wheel has been fine. I have watched it and given it a couple of minor truing adjustments. I will still get Spa to make me a proper wheel for my next major tour, but this one will continue to do me fine for commuting and UK trips, including audaxes and weekend camping trips.

 

[willem]

Cheap wheels can indeed last a long time, even if they are a bit more of a gamble. Some years ago, when money was tight, we bought a Giant hybrid for my wife, as a commuter bike, to take the kids to nursery school, and for holidays. This bike had cheap Shimano hubs, and machine made wheels. It had to endure Dutch style child transportation: the younger child in a seat at the front, the older child in a seat at the back, plus some shopping or camping luggage in two lowrider bags underneath the rear seat. Total weight could be 50 kg, plus 60 kg or so for my wife. The wheel lasted some 12000 km, when it failed on a cycling holiday near Colchester. It was then rebuilt with the same hub, and the new wheel lasted yet another 8000 km or more, when the bike was finally vandalized (set on fire). The hub was serviced only once, when the wheel was rebuilt. The bad news is that when you unexpectedly have to have a wheel rebuilt, it costs an arm and a leg. On my recent trip to Norway with some cycling buddies, a number of them also had wheel failures (five wheels in a group of 16 bikes..., and this for experienced cycle tourists who had had their bikes serviced professionally beforehand) and each time finding a replacement wheel was difficult and expensive.
Willem

 

[sgw]

I have decided to get the wheel built by my local shop. This should avoid any compatability issues

Thanks all for the input.

As for my loaded weight... I still consider anything under 25kg to be reasonable for any totaly independant wild camping of 2/3 days or so, and will go to 30kg for longer trips or if the occasion demands. And that is with my main componant weights already below those listed by andym. I don't take anything that doesn't get used and don't carry weight for fun.

There are as many ways of camping as there are campers.

 

[willem]

Sounds like a good plan for your new wheel. As for luggage, well, I hope you will feel inspired to experiment with alternatives. Enjoy the prelims with your son.
Willem

 

[Ticktockmy]

I am frequently breaking spokes on the rear wheel of my entry level hybrid. I tour with full camping kit (30kg?) on rear panniers and inevitably find myself on far rougher tracks than perhaps I should.

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to an effective upgrade for my no name rear wheel on a very tight budget.

700c 7spd 32mm tyre

My first thought regarding frequently breaking spokes is that your spoke tension is a little low, which is more often the cause of spokes breakage, to much tension normally manifests itself quite quickly by distorting the rim.
You can check the spoke tension with a Tensiometerbut but that is time consuming. Personally I check it the old way, slowly spin the wheel and let a screwdriver play a tune on the spokes as the wheel rotates, when all the spokes all play the same nice crisp tune then .

Another cause of your problems is that you could have a rack which flexes when loaded, this flexing would have quite a effect on the wheel, considering the heavy load you say you carry, Just a thought.

 

[sgw]

Just returned to thank you all for the advice offered.

I have had my new wheel fitted for a few days now and I am amazed what a different feel it has given to the whole bike. As I expected the newer and better quality freewheel and bearings make it roll much better, more of a surprise is the far more direct feeling of the drive. It just seems more responsive all round. I suspect I had a lot of flex and friction in my old wheel.

I went for the Mavic 36 spoke 319 rim with an STX (Parallax) hub and SS DB spokes.

Although I didn't purchase any of the specific wheels suggested, I am still very gratefully for all the advice as it meant I could go to my LBS armed with the knowledge of what I wanted.

 

[Crankarm]

So you have your new hopefully stronger and more durable wheel. How much did it cost you?

Wrt the weight you carry. You surely don't carry 30kg of luggage on the rear of your bike? Blimey. Your loaded bike must make for at best entertaining and at worst really sluggish and hair raising handling? As suggested by others take a good look at what you are carrying to leave some stuff behind. If you still need all that weight then at least try and spread the weight around the bike. Get some front racks and panniers to put some of your stuff in the front panniers which will free up space in the rear. Seriously having 30kg plus your own body weight say 80kg totall 110kg over the rear wheel will mean it will have to be flipping strong and well built to withstand breaking spokes or going out of true. Just my 2ps worth.

 

[willem]

I am all in favour of rear panniers only, provided the weight is not too much. On my bike 15 kg is about the maximum, before the bike's handling begins to deteriorate (the wheel will take much more). Mind you this is on a classy drop bar tourer where you have quite a bit of your body weight forward. Rather than go for front panniers, I would go for weight reduction. Yes we can.
Willem

 

[sgw]

So you have your new hopefully stronger and more durable wheel. How much did it cost you?

Wrt the weight you carry. You surely don't carry 30kg of luggage on the rear of your bike? Blimey. Your loaded bike must make for at best entertaining and at worst really sluggish and hair raising handling?

The wheel cost me £45 and I had to get a cassette as well so £63 all in.

The 30kg was as I said a max figure but yes, most was on the rear. Just a couple of kg of bits and bobs in a bar bag, binoculars and waterproofs strapped to stem and bar bag mount and a couple of kg of water in cages. So at least 20 - 25kg on the back.

I am confident that the new wheel is a great improvement over my original single wall unbranded one. Even that one carried all my gear over many a high off road pass before giving up. Ok so I had to replace a spoke or two after particularly strenuous trips, oh and an axle once.

I am indeed a very slow tourer but speed is the last thing I am looking for. As for the handling...I can get to places that others seem to think they need £1000's of pounds of springs and technology to reach, that's good enough for me.

Your concern and that of others regarding my load is interesting.

I have discussed pack weights with many backpackers and cyclists over the years. I find that most (like the manufacturers of the overpriced kit many promote) give very selective and over optimistic estimates of their pack weights. I believe that the only true weight is the one you take as you lock the door to leave. Not a rough tot up based on sales hype. I think many people would be very surprised if they tried it.

Even allowing for that I realise that my load is heavy. However my type of touring is different to what I notice from reading these forums is the usual. I go prepared to be totally self sufficient in mountain conditions for at least 2 days, often more. If I had read all the well meaning advice as to the weight and inadequacy of my equipment before venturing out I would never have dared to leave the high street.

 

[psmiffy]

Your concern and that of others regarding my load is interesting.

Even allowing for that I realise that my load is heavy. However my type of touring is different to what I notice from reading these forums is the usual. I go prepared to be totally self sufficient in mountain conditions for at least 2 days, often more. If I had read all the well meaning advice as to the weight and inadequacy of my equipment before venturing out I would never have dared to leave the high street.

+1 Yup - if it will go up it goes

 

[Ticktockmy]

I use on the rear of my MTB touring bike a SAS 26" Pro Rear Wheel, 36mm wide rim and a little on the heavy side, but sure takes the hard life of carring 10 kilos of cyclepacking kit,.

 

[Ticktockmy]

which is made ny Halo by the way

 

[andym]

I have discussed pack weights with many backpackers and cyclists over the years. I find that most (like the manufacturers of the overpriced kit many promote) give very selective and over optimistic estimates of their pack weights. I believe that the only true weight is the one you take as you lock the door to leave. Not a rough tot up based on sales hype. I think many people would be very surprised if they tried it.

Even allowing for that I realise that my load is heavy. However my type of touring is different to what I notice from reading these forums is the usual. I go prepared to be totally self sufficient in mountain conditions for at least 2 days, often more. If I had read all the well meaning advice as to the weight and inadequacy of my equipment before venturing out I would never have dared to leave the high street.

Ok point taken, but you're definitely sure you're carrying 30kgs and not 30lbs? (either that or maybe you're definition of 'self-sufficiency' includes carrying a sack of potatoes

).

 

[Ticktockmy]

I have discussed pack weights with many backpackers and cyclists over the years. I find that most (like the manufacturers of the overpriced kit many promote) give very selective and over optimistic estimates of their pack weights. I believe that the only true weight is the one you take as you lock the door to leave. Not a rough tot up based on sales hype. I think many people would be very surprised if they tried it.

Even allowing for that I realise that my load is heavy. However my type of touring is different to what I notice from reading these forums is the usual. I go prepared to be totally self sufficient in mountain conditions for at least 2 days, often more. If I had read all the well meaning advice as to the weight and inadequacy of my equipment before venturing out I would never have dared to leave the high street.

Carrying 30kgs on the rear of the bike, I would myself worry if the Rack itself can stand that sort load, it will put a lot of stress on the fixing points, also because the weight is in the main concentrated on just a few points on your rear stays, it will put a lots of strain on those parts.

Likewise the movement stresses of the load moving in rhythm with your own body movements, will likewise cause your wheel to flex, which could well be a cause of broken spokes.

I use old man mountain racks and they are rated 50 pounds Max, and apart from maybe some custom built racks they are the strongest rated I have found.

Regarding " I go prepared to be totally self sufficient in mountain conditions for at least 2 days, often more."


I use the same equipment for my cycletouring as I use for my backpacking, the only difference is that for backpacking it goes into a rucksac and not panniers. for a 5 day mountain trip, which normally includes 5 days worth of Wayfares boil in the bag meals (which are relatively heavy) , and thats comes out at 14 kls, and gets lighter each day.

To be honest, I would take heed of some of the advise given here, I think you would find your cycling more enjoyable.


Anyway good luck, and may the force be with you.

 

[sgw]

Ok point taken, but you're definitely sure you're carrying 30kgs and not 30lbs? (either that or maybe you're definition of 'self-sufficiency' includes carrying a sack of potatoes

).

While not a sack full, I do often take a pound or so of new spuds and use them on the first night out.

As I have said before, it can be up to 30kg. more usual would be 25kg and I don't think I get down to 20 kg very often. I usually set of with water, beer, brandy and milk making up 6.5kg alone! On occasion I take a telescope and tripod at 3.5 kg. So there's 10kg before the shelter, cooking, sleeping, first aid/survival gear, maps, field guide, water purification, food, binoculars, tools, spares, lights, wet weather gear, wash kit, change of clothes, boots, book ...etc...etc.

To be honest, I would take heed of some of the advise given here, I think you would find your cycling more enjoyable.

While not wishing to disparage the advice offered, I can only go by the evidence of my own experience. I have been doing similar, previously on even more inappropriate bikes, for over 40 yrs. Yes I have broken a rack, and a few spokes but it's evident from reading these forums that expensive kit is no protection from such things. I wonder how many of the dire warnings are based on actual experience of disasters when carrying such weights or are the result of untested "accepted wisdom"?

My current rack for example is a cheap Blackburn clone, it has survived 8yrs of such treatment and is none the worse for it.

As for my enjoyment of my cycling... I think a great part of the misunderstanding here lies with the fact that we are discussing different activities with different objectives. I am usually not out to cover ground, reach a destination, confined to an itinary or deadline. I am not particularly fit and carrying the accumulated injuries of 56yrs along with my 30kg of kit, if have to push a mile or so uphill, I might do it in 100yd stages stopping to admire the view as often as I like. After all, I have everything I need with me and where else am I so desperate to be in such a hurry anyway? There are few places in the UK where you need to climb for more than 1 - 2 miles without getting to somewhere worth being. I am quit content for my bike to become a donkey or a wheelbarrow when necessary.

I think that the tendency these days for the widespread belief that expensive and high tech kit is needed for almost any activity is I suspect the result of the triumph of marketing over experience. I note that even some of the routes I have long taken across the moors have now been designated by various marketing organisations as "difficult", "requiring fitness" "demanding" or even as "suitable for mountain bikes only". Well I think that depends on how quick you want to go. What do these people think we did before they discovered how much we were willing to spend on their overpriced and over hyped equipment?

While I have no real concern about how much other people feel the need to spend, I think it is sad that youngsters and beginners might be denied the adventure and enjoyment of making do by the dominance of commercialism/consumerism that pervades so many activities these days.

Thanks again for all the advice, even that which I haven't taken.