Upgrading Shimano Freehub

davester65

Growing Old is Compulsory...Growing Up is Optional
On my winter bike I have a pair of Shimano R501 wheels that are about 3 years old and have a 9 speed Shimano Freehub, I am thinking of upgrading the Groupset on that bike to 105 11 speed, is it possible to replace the freehub for an 11 speed version? and if Yes, any ideas on cost?
 
Location
Loch side.
Nope.
 

lpretro1

Guest
You'd need to completely rebuild the wheel with a 11 spd hub - not only does freehub body not fit but dishing of wheel will be different for 11. Better off buying new
 
Location
Loch side.
I don't understand why you want to downgrade from 9 to 11. All the components cost more, don't last longer and give you no advantage. You'll still have similar top and bottom gear rations and a hell of a lot of irritating little increments in between. Nine is fine. Go for a ride.
 

helston90

Eat, sleep, ride, repeat.
Location
Cornwall
I don't understand why you want to downgrade from 9 to 11. All the components cost more, don't last longer and give you no advantage. You'll still have similar top and bottom gear rations and a hell of a lot of irritating little increments in between. Nine is fine. Go for a ride.
Because 11 speed is new- and it's in the media as being new and better and if I'm told its better I have to go and buy it.:laugh:

I'm glad someone else is of the similar opinion to me (looks at his 8 Speed triple)
 

bikeman66

Senior Member
Location
Isle of Wight
Because 11 speed is new- and it's in the media as being new and better and if I'm told its better I have to go and buy it.:laugh:

I'm glad someone else is of the similar opinion to me (looks at his 8 Speed triple)
Totally agree Helston90,

Never had any issues with nine speed. Of course, the component manufacturers would love me to buy their new kit, just because I MUST have it, and they'll probably force me to by phasing nine speed out sooner or later, but until then my money will be spent on gear that actually makes a difference to my cycling experience.
 
OP
davester65

davester65

Growing Old is Compulsory...Growing Up is Optional
Totally agree Helston90,

Never had any issues with nine speed. Of course, the component manufacturers would love me to buy their new kit, just because I MUST have it, and they'll probably force me to by phasing nine speed out sooner or later, but until then my money will be spent on gear that actually makes a difference to my cycling experience.
It does make a difference to your cycling experience........please allow me to qualify that.......
I have an 11 speed 105 5800 series groupset on my summer bike and a 10 speed 105 5700 series groupset on my winter bike.......the 5700 Groupset used to be on my Summer bike before i upgraded to 5800.
I am a firm believer in Shimano's trickle down technology practices...i.e. this years 105 11 speed is last years Ultegra 11 speed which was the year before's Dura Ace 11 speed etc etc........
There are two major differences, from a riding perspective, between 5800 and 5700, firstly the 5800 gear changing is a little bit lighter, smoother and crisper than the 5700, not a huge difference, but it IS noticable, secondly......and this is the BIG difference......the stopping power of the 5800 brakes is FAR BETTER than the 5700. Please don't take my word for it though, do some research, trade reviews of the 5800 groupset reckon it's the best £ for £ groupset released...EVER...by any manufacturer, which is why i'm looking to upgrade my winter bike to the 5800 group.

Please don't take this as a rant...it's not....it's just my opinion, but if you look back to my OP you will see that i asked a question about swapping a freehub to save me a few quid on shelling out for an extra wheelset, what i didn't ask for was a debate about what groupset i should have on my bikes!!!
 
Location
Loch side.
I am a firm believer in Shimano's trickle down technology practices...i.e. this years 105 11 speed is last years Ultegra 11 speed which was the year before's Dura Ace 11 speed etc etc........
It doesn't quite work like that. Shimano will lead out with a new concept such as 11-speed or hydraulic brakes or electronics or whatever, by first putting it on Dura Ace or XTR. Then, the next year, a cheaper version of it goes onto Ultegra/XT. What they trickle down isn't the same quality or materials, just the same concept. The trickly-down sometimes uses cheaper material (steel rather than titanium) and almost always, a different design. Often durability is also sacrificed, bushings instead of ball bearings for instance. (But don't take this as an indication of poor debility on lesser graded kit).

There are two major differences, from a riding perspective, between 5800 and 5700, firstly the 5800 gear changing is a little bit lighter, smoother and crisper than the 5700, not a huge difference, but it IS noticable, secondly cut cut cut cut .....and this is the BIG difference......the stopping power of the 5800 brakes is FAR BETTER than the 5700.
This is simply not true. We cannot increase the stopping distance on bikes any more with the current bike design. The limiting factor for the front brake is overturning momentum, not traction or brake force. The limiting factor for the rear brake is weight over the back wheel - the wheel simply skids and once it skids, it does very little braking.

Lets start with the front brake first. You cannot skid a front wheel on a bicycle where there is good traction. I'm not talking ice, I'm talking dry tarmac. It is impossible because the bike does an endo before it can skid. That's the reason motorcyclists can do stoppies. If the wheel could skid, you cannot do a stoppie. To improve the brake distance you will have to redesign the bike so that the centre of gravity is below the level of the hubs like in a car.

Rear wheels do very little of the braking on a bike, perhaps only 15% if the rider is extremely skilled. Note that these limitations have nothing to do with putting on disc brakes, better pads or any such. Once you can do an endo, you cannot improve braking distance.

I chose my words carefully and I never said you cannot improve the braking experience. Better wet weather performance is obviously a good idea. I like smooth actuating brakes etc etc. We would all like to brake using less force or brake easier from the hoods (which is what was improved on the new Shimano equipment BTW).

We would also like better stopping distance but that cannot be had. Unfortunately only the guys on recumbants can dream of that. Bicycle magazines never tell you that. I think they don't even understand it.
 
OP
davester65

davester65

Growing Old is Compulsory...Growing Up is Optional
It doesn't quite work like that. Shimano will lead out with a new concept such as 11-speed or hydraulic brakes or electronics or whatever, by first putting it on Dura Ace or XTR. Then, the next year, a cheaper version of it goes onto Ultegra/XT. What they trickle down isn't the same quality or materials, just the same concept. The trickly-down sometimes uses cheaper material (steel rather than titanium) and almost always, a different design. Often durability is also sacrificed, bushings instead of ball bearings for instance. (But don't take this as an indication of poor debility on lesser graded kit).



This is simply not true. We cannot increase the stopping distance on bikes any more with the current bike design. The limiting factor for the front brake is overturning momentum, not traction or brake force. The limiting factor for the rear brake is weight over the back wheel - the wheel simply skids and once it skids, it does very little braking.

Lets start with the front brake first. You cannot skid a front wheel on a bicycle where there is good traction. I'm not talking ice, I'm talking dry tarmac. It is impossible because the bike does an endo before it can skid. That's the reason motorcyclists can do stoppies. If the wheel could skid, you cannot do a stoppie. To improve the brake distance you will have to redesign the bike so that the centre of gravity is below the level of the hubs like in a car.

Rear wheels do very little of the braking on a bike, perhaps only 15% if the rider is extremely skilled. Note that these limitations have nothing to do with putting on disc brakes, better pads or any such. Once you can do an endo, you cannot improve braking distance.

I chose my words carefully and I never said you cannot improve the braking experience. Better wet weather performance is obviously a good idea. I like smooth actuating brakes etc etc. We would all like to brake using less force or brake easier from the hoods (which is what was improved on the new Shimano equipment BTW).

We would also like better stopping distance but that cannot be had. Unfortunately only the guys on recumbants can dream of that. Bicycle magazines never tell you that. I think they don't even understand it.
and I quote myself:

"Please don't take this as a rant...it's not....it's just my opinion, but if you look back to my OP you will see that i asked a question about swapping a freehub to save me a few quid on shelling out for an extra wheelset, what i didn't ask for was a debate about what groupset i should have on my bikes!!!"

and why should i believe your writings against these?

http://road.cc/content/news/115191-shimano-105-goes-11-speed

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/reviews/gears-drivetrain/shimano-105-groupset
 
Location
Loch side.
and I quote myself:

"Please don't take this as a rant...it's not....it's just my opinion, but if you look back to my OP you will see that i asked a question about swapping a freehub to save me a few quid on shelling out for an extra wheelset, what i didn't ask for was a debate about what groupset i should have on my bikes!!!"

and why should i believe your writings against these?

http://road.cc/content/news/115191-shimano-105-goes-11-speed

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/reviews/gears-drivetrain/shimano-105-groupset
I never took it as a rant. I replied to some inaccuracies you made and pointed to the science of braking. However, if you have found a magazine that defies physics, keep on buying, they may have some other interesting stuff in there too.
 
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