Spiderweb
Not So Special One
- Location
- North Yorkshire
Ah, just read that!
Using the small claims court
- Thread starter kingrollo
- Start date
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Arjimlad
Tights of Cydonia
- Location
- South Glos
Aside from the merits of the claim, using the process should be easy enough as long as you do what the Court orders you to do on time. I see many cases where people don't complete the various forms on time and then run into difficulties.
As long as you don't indulge in "unreasonable behaviour" the usual rule is nobody recovers legal costs win or lose in small claims, so they're often de-lawyered unless one side has legal expenses insurance. I once got a costs order against a litigant in person who refused a reasonable offer, of substantially more than they were eventually awarded by the court, for example.
Keep the case simple, don't add in fripperies like "emotional trauma" and all should be well. Make sure you identify the Defendant correctly, if it's a shop, what's the proper trading entity, for example.
As long as you don't indulge in "unreasonable behaviour" the usual rule is nobody recovers legal costs win or lose in small claims, so they're often de-lawyered unless one side has legal expenses insurance. I once got a costs order against a litigant in person who refused a reasonable offer, of substantially more than they were eventually awarded by the court, for example.
Keep the case simple, don't add in fripperies like "emotional trauma" and all should be well. Make sure you identify the Defendant correctly, if it's a shop, what's the proper trading entity, for example.
oldwheels
Legendary Member
- Location
- Isle of Mull
My understanding as a former retailer [ not of bikes ] is that the onus is on the retailer in the first instance. It is up to the retailer to make good any faults and pass the flack back to the manufacturer. Unfortunate that the manufacturer has gone out of business but the onus is still on the retailer.
Donger
Convoi Exceptionnel
- Location
- Quedgeley, Glos.
I only took that course of action many years ago, (in 1999 I think), so things may well have changed since then. In my case I was given a court case official reference the mere mention of which caused the respondent to pay up immediately. I believe this incurred a small cost to me, but that I included that cost in my claim to the respondent. That part is, I'm afraid, a bit blurred in the fog of time. My experience was that it was well worth showing the other party that you mean business by being able to quote the court reference number and let them know that it is time for them to take their head out of the sand as "this is really happening" ... as I recall saying to him in my final letter.
I like to think it was my reasoned and eloquent letters, combined with the evidence of an impending court case that did the trick .... and not just the fact that the respondent knew that an enormous, disgruntled skinhead knew where he lived!!!! Good luck to you.
I like to think it was my reasoned and eloquent letters, combined with the evidence of an impending court case that did the trick .... and not just the fact that the respondent knew that an enormous, disgruntled skinhead knew where he lived!!!! Good luck to you.
Might be worth having a conversation with the shop before heading to court, and it may well be worth getting a structural assessment of the bike to see if there is actually a crack in the carbon laminate causing the paint problems. If not it could just be poor paintwork.
If there is a fault with the frame then you can find out how much it would cost for a repair as well, this might serve you well if you went to court not looking for the total costs of a new bike but rather the cost of remediating the problem, especially given the manufacturer no long exists to honour the original warranty.
If there is a fault with the frame then you can find out how much it would cost for a repair as well, this might serve you well if you went to court not looking for the total costs of a new bike but rather the cost of remediating the problem, especially given the manufacturer no long exists to honour the original warranty.
presta
Guru
I once got the information pack about the Small Claims Court from Trading Standards, but having read it I decided not to bother.
Apparently, they have no powers to enforce their own rulings, so if the defendant knows that, and decides not to pay up, your only recourse is to the County Court, thereby incurring all the costs that the Small Claims Court is supposed to be avoiding.
Apparently, they have no powers to enforce their own rulings, so if the defendant knows that, and decides not to pay up, your only recourse is to the County Court, thereby incurring all the costs that the Small Claims Court is supposed to be avoiding.
glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
In which country? (Laws and procedure differ.)
Small claims (now called simple procedure) cases in Scotland, when granted in favour of a pursuer, include a "warrant for all lawful execution thereon". That means that on being awarded judgement in your favour, you can take whatever permitted steps are necessary to recover the payment from the defender. There is no separate legal process.
vickster
Legendary Member
Pretty sure he's in England
OP
OP
kingrollo
Guru
I didn't buy it from DHW agencies.
Legally it's between myself and the shop.
Not really worth speculating on the outcome. None of us know how the magistrate will rule.
T4tomo
Legendary Member
and he has a point, which Court may be sympathetic to. You didn't allow him to repair the original "fault" and the "new" fault has occurred outside the warranty period.
Too much time has passed to prove unworthy at time of sale for a SOGA remedy.
Have you gone back to the people who did the previous repair - as its that repair that has failed again - did they warrant their own repair work?
bonzobanana
Guru
I've resolved a few issues in the past before going to the small claims court by using section 75 credit card protection where the credit card company is jointly liable with the retailer if over £100. If you paid by credit card that might be an option.
Carbon fibre is hand made, layer by layer its the least consistent frame manufacturing material with the highest failure rate. You only have to see the videos of Raoul at Luescher Technik, Hambini etc to see frames that cost £1000s of pounds are made like junk occasionally. If you look at Quest Composites factory images who make Canyon and Trek frames as well as probably many other brands to see its never going to be consistent quality. Dirt could easily get into the resin or fibres and work as a cutting agent over time and you get the occasional voids between layers of carbon fibre. It's no surprise you get a dodgy CF frame occasionally its the nature of the material. I mean look at the way that woman is wearing that hat which is meant to protect dust etc getting into the fibres of the material and that is the factory images they have on their own site. Even the high quality high volume CF factories like Giant and Merida produce a dodgy frame occasionally in Taiwan. If poor frames are only 2% that is still one in fifty frames of poor quality. Despite CF being a small percentage of sales for bikes it represents a huge percentage dare I say majority of bike recalls. It's a performance material though so like any performance product there are safety and reliability compromises. No one expects a Ferrari or McLaren to be as reliable or strong as Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. In the time it takes to make one CF frame you can probably make 100s maybe 1000s of steel frames using robot welders and the failure rate of such frames is probably less than 0.1% according to some figures I've seen shown on various factory sites. Anyway there is no possible defence for failing frame by the importer or retailer its a common issue for a very small percentage of frames.
Carbon fibre is hand made, layer by layer its the least consistent frame manufacturing material with the highest failure rate. You only have to see the videos of Raoul at Luescher Technik, Hambini etc to see frames that cost £1000s of pounds are made like junk occasionally. If you look at Quest Composites factory images who make Canyon and Trek frames as well as probably many other brands to see its never going to be consistent quality. Dirt could easily get into the resin or fibres and work as a cutting agent over time and you get the occasional voids between layers of carbon fibre. It's no surprise you get a dodgy CF frame occasionally its the nature of the material. I mean look at the way that woman is wearing that hat which is meant to protect dust etc getting into the fibres of the material and that is the factory images they have on their own site. Even the high quality high volume CF factories like Giant and Merida produce a dodgy frame occasionally in Taiwan. If poor frames are only 2% that is still one in fifty frames of poor quality. Despite CF being a small percentage of sales for bikes it represents a huge percentage dare I say majority of bike recalls. It's a performance material though so like any performance product there are safety and reliability compromises. No one expects a Ferrari or McLaren to be as reliable or strong as Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. In the time it takes to make one CF frame you can probably make 100s maybe 1000s of steel frames using robot welders and the failure rate of such frames is probably less than 0.1% according to some figures I've seen shown on various factory sites. Anyway there is no possible defence for failing frame by the importer or retailer its a common issue for a very small percentage of frames.
