Vintage bike identification

[PHL67]

So I am looking for identification and possible year.
My thoughts are Claud Butler and thinking circs 1948.
Am open to all thoughts as will be refurbishing and keeping.
more pictures will be posted at weekend.
i will also show two more I found this week.
all very light and will look amazing once refinished.

 

[midlife]

Does look like a CB, there's a list on Retrobike of CB frame numbers which might help.

 

[classic33]

What's the marking on the seat post "clamp", and are there any other numbers/markings on the bottom bracket?

Appears to be a "J" on the very bottom.

 

[PHL67]

What's the marking on the seat post "clamp", and are there any other numbers/markings on the bottom bracket?

Appears to be a "J" on the very bottom.

Marking are just lines like Aztec lines. No other numbers.

 

[nonowt]

Ah, I saw this job lot for sale - glad to see they've gone to a good home.

This was the frame that drew my attention. 99% sure it's a Claud with the ax head lugs. Wild guess: 1948 Avant Coure? From what I've seen, the patterned seat clamp is common on pre-Holdsworth Clauds.

In case you've not trawled here already:

http://www.nkilgariff.com/ClaudButler.htm

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Fillet brazed BB but lugged elsewhere? Unusual choice of construction....
Would you expect to find a 531 frame with those rather plain, pressed steel rear dropouts? Looks a bit of a contradiction in terms. If the frame is really light; i.e. made of some sort of quality butted tubing, would you not expect a set of forged dropouts of similar quality?

 

[midlife]

Bilaminate I think, look at the seat lug, lugged at the top and a fillet at the bottom so not a lug as we know it.

That's what dropouts were BITD, no QR skewers needing thick dropouts

 

[Resseik]

I think that it's a Hetchins

 

[classic33]

Marking are just lines like Aztec lines. No other numbers.

What's the mark and the number on the bottom bracket, below the 8 on the right-hand side. Clear horizontal line, with a 9 to the right and something else closer to the locking ring.

 

[Illaveago]

A look to see who uses head tube badges with holes aligned vertically will help to narrow the field down a bit .

 

[Illaveago]

I just did a quick look on the net and compared a Hetchins badge with Claud Butler badge and the holes are further apart on the Claud Butler badge .
If you could find out the distance between the holes centres of a Claud Butler badge or a Hetchins and compare it with yours it could help to pin the make down .

 

[Illaveago]

How do Hetchins and Claud Butler frame numbers compare ? It might be one way of narrowing it down ?

 

[PHL67]

How do Hetchins and Claud Butler frame numbers compare ? It might be one way of narrowing it down ?

I will have to look At Hetchins but I was 99% leaning to Claud Butler.

 

[Illaveago]

I was just having a look on the net and found a reference to some Claud Butler frame numbers up to 1949 whereby the first digit refers to the year . So that could make your's a 1948 model. Post 49 they seem to have used two rows of 3 numbers.
I would have thought that your rear dropouts would date your frame to possibly pre 60's .

 

[PHL67]

I was just having a look on the net and found a reference to some Claud Butler frame numbers up to 1949 whereby the first digit refers to the year . So that could make your's a 1948 model. Post 49 they seem to have used two rows of 3 numbers.
I would have thought that your rear dropouts would date your frame to possibly pre 60's .

I was thinking 1948. Possibly a Sport Anglais.