Vinyl Records

[Renard]

Vinyl is wonderfully tactile and the covers are the real deal!

 

[Mayniac]

I haven't worked out how to do it on CDs - yet!

You need one of those Tesco 3w torches attched to a tin can with a tight length of string.

 

[tyred]

I have to agree. Vinyl just sounds better somehow. More real and any hiss or crackles add character!

 

[Mr Pig]

I realise recordings were engineered differently for vinyl as it has different characteristics but I go for accurate depiction all the way.

I couldn't say that vinyl is better in every way, that's not true. CDs are far more consistent from one to another and it's much easier to get an impressive sound out of them but they always have a sterility that reduces involvement compared to analog at its best. And vinyl virtually always sound pleasant on the ear where as CD done wrong sounds truly horrible.

And I would argue that CD is not accurate. It's just that the parts that are missing are harder to define and measure, but they are missing. I think that the fact that most people have lower resolution systems in their homes today is a direct result of the move to digital. It sounds ok as long as you don't shine too bright a light on it.

 

[Dan B]

I think that the fact that most people have lower resolution systems in their homes today is a direct result of the move to digital. It sounds ok as long as you don't shine too bright a light on it.

I assume by "lower resolution" you refer to mp3 and other lossy compression formats. I'd argue that we've always had low resolution formats, in the shape of the compact cassette and the AM radio.

And anyone claiming that the cassette degrades gracefully has forgotten wow and flutter

 

[Fnaar]

I've got loadas of vinyl, from way back when, but my speakers aren't up to much...

 

[Dan B]

I realise recordings were engineered differently for vinyl as it has different characteristics but I go for accurate depiction all the way.

RIAA equalisation, iirc. On recording you reduce the bass (makes the playback needle less likely to jump out of the groove) and increase treble (so the signal survives above the surface noise). On playback, do the opposite. It's a long way from transparent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

 

[User482]

I've always thought that vinyl rewards you for putting up with its inconvenience. I've restored a lovely 30 year old Thorens deck, with a decent tonearm, cartridge and pre-amp, it sounds glorious. Sadly it's also very apparent when recordings are less than perfect - I get the impression that a lot of modern stuff isn't recorded with vinyl in mind.

I barely use my (very expensive) CD player now - it's MP3s when I'm doing stuff, or vinyl if I want to sit doen and listen to the music properly.

 

[NickM]

I'm no hi-fi buff but cds are pretty much transparent...

Unless you have golden ears...

If you transcribe an LP to CD-R (in my case, with a Linn LP12, Ortofon moving coil and EAR phono stage plugged into a Flying Cow 24 bit A-to-D converter), all the colouration that makes LP so cuddly comes along for the ride. I would defy anybody to tell the difference between LP and transcription in a proper blinded listening test (that's why hi-fi magazines don't do blind tests).

Besides, almost all LPs made since the advent of digital sound were mastered on cutting equipment driven by a digital source

 

[swee'pea99]

ever tried skinning up on a cd cover?

 

[swee'pea99]

never mind an mp3 player...

 

[Ghost Donkey]

I couldn't say that vinyl is better in every way, that's not true. CDs are far more consistent from one to another and it's much easier to get an impressive sound out of them but they always have a sterility that reduces involvement compared to analog at its best. And vinyl virtually always sound pleasant on the ear where as CD done wrong sounds truly horrible.

And I would argue that CD is not accurate. It's just that the parts that are missing are harder to define and measure, but they are missing. I think that the fact that most people have lower resolution systems in their homes today is a direct result of the move to digital. It sounds ok as long as you don't shine too bright a light on it.

I realise you said t was hiard to define but in your opinion where would you say the loss comes in?. I am curious rather than trying to start an arguement. There are a lot of people who prefer vinyl and it's down to personnal opinion/taste IMO. Is it to do with the standard of analogue to digital conversion? The standard was set a long time ago. The bi-phase encoding used on cds is lossless but the standard used is very out of date especially when you look at the amount of processing power available for small amounts of money. Like vinyl the fact that the CD standard has stayed the same has helped the success of the format. I haven't heard any of the higher definition formats such as super audio cd but don't know they compare.

RIAA equalisation, iirc. On recording you reduce the bass (makes the playback needle less likely to jump out of the groove) and increase treble (so the signal survives above the surface noise). On playback, do the opposite. It's a long way from transparent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

Can't confirm this but one of my old tutors used to say that gramophones couldn't produce sounds below a certain frequency, maybe 1KHz. It relied on psycho accustics for your brain to interpret harmonics as the originanote. Never had my hands ona gramophone so I couldn't say if this actually works or not.

As for MP3s, who in their right mind would pay to download an album at the same price as a CD rather than buy the CD? If you want it on a computer
or MP3 player then do that from the disk rather than buying some substandard quality crap that I can tell the difference n quality on my ten year old richer sounds bargain basement hi-fi seperates.

 

[Ghost Donkey]

Unless you have golden ears...

If you transcribe an LP to CD-R (in my case, with a Linn LP12, Ortofon moving coil and EAR phono stage plugged into a Flying Cow 24 bit A-to-D converter), all the colouration that makes LP so cuddly comes along for the ride. I would defy anybody to tell the difference between LP and transcription in a proper blinded listening test (that's why hi-fi magazines don't do blind tests).

Besides, almost all LPs made since the advent of digital sound were mastered on cutting equipment driven by a digital source

I think we're making the same point here . By saying CD is transparent I meant true to the source it is from resulting in someone not being able to tell the difference from the original in a blind test such as in the example you described. I have golden eyes as such from an old job but my ears aren't too bad either. I'm a cd man all the way but each to their own.

 

[NickM]

I think we're making the same point here

Indeed we are. Preference for the sound of LPs is just that, a preference.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

It wasn't one of their best admittedly.

Cassette tape. Pah. What you need is a proper reel-to-reel. Just look at that pine effect sidewall.

That is a work of art Mort!!