We must use the primary position

[magnatom]

I personally think that one of the key benefits of the primary position is visibility. It places you firmly in the drivers field of view. I feel that the further left you are the more likely you are to fall into peripheral vision of the following drivers and out of mind.

I totally agree though that awareness is important and in the case of the cyclist in the video I posted he didn't look around when he rejoined the road. I'm not sure he knew where the following car was. (we need a disapproving emoticon!)

 

[gbb]

Looking at your camshot, i'm not sure he should be in primary position, but rather secondary, or at least riding more assertively.
The difficulty is i couldnt see him while the traffic was stationary, it was like he came in from the side a little later than your shot started. (maybe, maybe not)
You were absolutely correct in your positioning, cars in front and (i assume) cars behind, and you appear a lot faster/fitter than the other guy, and able to keep up with the flow.

He certainly didnt, couldnt, or never intended to.....which is why he would be wasting his time, and everyone elses, taking primary position.
He would have been able to hold position for seconds, then as you see, the white car in front of him leaves him standing, and he would have been left holding up the traffic behind him.

Riding more assertively, he wouldnt have found himself squeezed as the layby / bustop ended....

Primary position is perfect for situations where the traffics not going faster than you....but he was never going to keep up.

 

[toontra]

I was on a bus last week and from the front upstairs seat witnessed what I think was a cyclist taking the primary position. He was in the middle of the bus lane the whole way up Archway Road hill, meaning the bus had to stay behind. He was doing about 8-10mph, and even when he could have safely moved over into an extended bus stop/layby type thing (about 50 yards long) to let the bus overtake he didn't (he could have re-entered the road without danger as it was still bus lane).

In this case I think taking the "primary position" was inconsiderate to the 60 people on the bus who were stuck behind him for 4-5 minutes. To his credit the bus driver didn't show any signs of irritation!

I'm all for taking the primary position, but think judgement should be applied (as in many other situations).

 

[Cab]

I'm all for taking the primary position, but think judgement should be applied (as in many other situations).

Absolutely. And I doubt anyone would disagree. The only time I'd be temtped to stay out in primary in front of a bus like that would be if the bus gets too close, then it seems unsafe to move aside and encourage close overtaking.

 

[HJ]

Thing is, most cyclists haven't read about or been educated in how to ride in traffic, which is why you so often see positioning that appears dangerous. Thankfully, most motorists are alert enough to compensate, but it doesn't do much for their opinion of cyclists!

Beanzontoast is right, there are a lot of cyclist out there who have had no form of training at all, but there is a also a sense of inferiority among some cyclist who feel the mustn't get in the way of the cars as they have more right to the road, which is of course b00locks.

 

[dondare]

Some of the posters on here seem to be able to ride very fast. A huge number of daily commuters can't, either being less fit, too old or on bikes that aren't designed for it. The fact is that a slow cyclist should be given as much room and as much time as they need to be able to use the road safely. They can't be expected to ride primary, but that doesn't mean that they are asking to be pushed into the gutter, crushed against railings or left hooked at every juntion.

 

[Tynan]

what other s have said really, I'm doing more and more primary and passing on the right but that's come as I've got fitter and faster, people plodding along simply don;t have the speed, acceleration, awareness or control to do anything much more that trudge along at the side of the road, you simply can't expect them to ride to the same level, even if they want to and I bet most of them don't want to anyway

people gutter hugging is a fact, and for many of them it's perhaps the best place, junctions aside

every day I come through the four lane junction across Holloway Road into Camden Road and I'm surprised every day that even seemingly experienced cyclists start from the wrong lane and then have to cut across the left hand turn into Liverpool(?) Road, involving all sorts of shutting an swearing as they cross cars trying to accelerate down their lane

position at junctions is more important than gutter hugging I think

 

[magnatom]

Can I just point out I don't say everyone should be in the primary position all of the time! I certainly don't always hold that position. I just wondered what people thought of the situation in the video. It's downhill here and even a novice cyclist can get above 15mph without too much effort. It is probably about 300m to the next set if lights (which are often red anyway) so I feel that even if the chap is moving slowly (15mph is a reasonable estimate for his speed I think) I feel that he should have been further out.

 

[Tynan]

he's trying to let the car pass him, the traffic is clearly about to be accelerating and the car behaves reasonably well

but yeah, he was much too tight to the curb too early, granted

 

[dub-no-bass]

every day I come through the four lane junction across Holloway Road into Camden Road and I'm surprised every day that even seemingly experienced cyclists start from the wrong lane and then have to cut across the left hand turn into Liverpool(?) Road

Caledonian Road. I think it's because most cyclists at that junction would be afraid to move into the right hand lane of traffic, which is where you need to be to go straight over to Camden. I'm lucky in only ever needing to go straight over towards Camden at weekends, when it's quieter - during the week I have to go left up Cally Rd. Traffic does tend to roar off when the lights go green.
During the week, it would be scary junction for a lot of people - too scary to get into the correct lane for.

 

[Tynan]

every day I come through the four lane junction across Holloway Road into Camden Road and I'm surprised every day that even seemingly experienced cyclists start from the wrong lane and then have to cut across the left hand turn into Liverpool(?) Road

Caledonian Road. I think it's because most cyclists at that junction would be afraid to move into the right hand lane of traffic, which is where you need to be to go straight over to Camden. I'm lucky in only ever needing to go straight over towards Camden at weekends, when it's quieter - during the week I have to go left up Cally Rd. Traffic does tend to roar off when the lights go green.
During the week, it would be scary junction for a lot of people - too scary to get into the correct lane for.[/quote]

all the more reason to be in the right lane before the lights change, there's almost always a red line and queued traffic when I get there so it's as easy as it gets

all about planning ahead and getting good position, I'm already one lane over from the previous junction, ride along the outside of a very wide bus lane and then one more lane as approach the lights, it's slow or stationary traffic at about 8.15am

my sympathies are usually with the cars, most of the cyclists seem to leave it very late indeed before trying to get over, late enough that cars might well assume that Caledonian Road (thanks) is the road they wanted

I used to ride down Caledonian Road a long time ago, nice road, down hill mostly and quick

 

[dub-no-bass]

Hey, you're preaching to the converted here - I do get in the right lane at that junction, but as you have also observed, a lot of other cyclists don't. I think they're too afraid to, possibly because they are not aware that cyclists are allowed to ride anywhere, and are not just limited to the far left of the left-hand lane.

 

[dondare]

I was on a bus last week and from the front upstairs seat witnessed what I think was a cyclist taking the primary position. He was in the middle of the bus lane the whole way up Archway Road hill, meaning the bus had to stay behind. He was doing about 8-10mph, and even when he could have safely moved over into an extended bus stop/layby type thing (about 50 yards long) to let the bus overtake he didn't (he could have re-entered the road without danger as it was still bus lane).

In this case I think taking the "primary position" was inconsiderate to the 60 people on the bus who were stuck behind him for 4-5 minutes. To his credit the bus driver didn't show any signs of irritation!

I'm all for taking the primary position, but think judgement should be applied (as in many other situations).

I cycle up Archway in the bus lane and there's no way of doing it that doesn't cause inconvenience to the cyclist or to the bus.
The road is broken up and it's worst nearest the kerb; so keeping as far as possible to the left is unpleasant, but riding on the better part blocks the bus. Pulling into the bus stop (which is right at the bottom) to let a bus go past is not something that I would ever consider, the bus might also be pulling in; that's what it's for. At the top there's a completely unneccessary island that prevents buses passing cyclists. Sometimes buses get held up by cyclists on Archway and sometimes cyclists get get held up by buses and until the bus lane is widened and resurfaced it'll continue to happen.

 

[Tynan]

sorry, mostly for the benefits of les autres

what puzzles me is that they seem to not fancy moving over a lane or two when cars are stopped or slow but they think they'll manage it when the cars are accelerating, in fairness lots of them cross the lane(s) as they cross Holloway Road, so unnecessary though

I can only assume those of them that would have to do the later junction crossing at Swiss Cottage are all dead or go another route now, you do that one right or not at all