Well-defined cycle lanes?

[chap]

So, my proposal for making cycling safer in towns and cities would be to set little brightly-colored plastic blocks (like cat's eyes, but without the reflective bit) into the tarmac at regular intervals along the boundary between the cycle lane and the road.

Nice to have an American on board

I have had similar ideas although the idea of cat's eyes would be good, and ideally they would be taller (thus proving an unpleasant encounter and a decent notifier for HGVs.) That, or ideally just erect bollards, or a kerb in-between the lanes.

I think the most pragmatic alternative (from fully segregated lanes) is to expand bus lanes to accommodate 1 and a half buses. This, plus the enforcement of no cars and motorcycles, would make many busy roads a lot safer for cyclists.

 

[marinyork]

I think the most pragmatic alternative (from fully segregated lanes) is to expand bus lanes to accommodate 1 and a half buses. This, plus the enforcement of no cars and motorcycles, would make many busy roads a lot safer for cyclists.

I'm fine with that. Outside of London though there's the practicality issue. Many roads just aren't wide enough. It's quite fashionable to have 4 lanes on a main road with the outer two on each side as bus lanes and the middle 2 normal lanes. The roads narrow and widen, bus lanes start and end and then restart.

You can do what you said with 1.5 buses but then you either have to

• bus lane in only one direction
• grab a bit of the pavement
• remove parking spaces
• bus gate in one direction or both directions etc

By the time you've done all that you might as well be looking at whether you should make it a 20mph zone, widen the pavement for peds, have a single wider lane in either direction and so on and so on, exactly the opposite.

 

[chap]

I'm fine with that. Outside of London though there's the practicality issue. Many roads just aren't wide enough. It's quite fashionable to have 4 lanes on a main road with the outer two on each side as bus lanes and the middle 2 normal lanes. The roads narrow and widen, bus lanes start and end and then restart.

You can do what you said with 1.5 buses but then you either have to

• bus lane in only one direction
• grab a bit of the pavement
• remove parking spaces
• bus gate in one direction or both directions etc

By the time you've done all that you might as well be looking at whether you should make it a 20mph zone, widen the pavement for peds, have a single wider lane in either direction and so on and so on, exactly the opposite.

A lot can be achieved through patterns, this is a recurring issue, and London faces it too.

The problem is that many parts of London are not suited to high loads of motorised traffic, the centre reveals this, and most of Zone 1 to 3 can pay testament to this fact. Perhaps in the newer developments, the vibrancy and liveability of the town has been replaced with maximum car-efficient routes, thus the town resembles a graveyard for nature, an unapproachable concrete oasis, or Milton Keynes (I know, MK is very green in parts)

There are many who would be better at identifying the solutions than we, it is just a case of establishing the demand for them to regard the pedestrian and cyclist as being on par if not higher priority than the motorist about town.

 

[thomas]

Download Chapter 5, and look at the picture on the front cover.

The cycle lane crossing the junction is blocked by a 4x4 and moped waiting at the lights

I thought that too at first, but I think the lights just changed....the cars behind look to be pulling away too

The problem is most cycle lanes have their boundary line where want my wheels to be! Also visual segregation of lanes mean that motorists expect cyclists to stick to those boundaries no mater what, this causes far more conflict when a cyclists needs to ride outside those lanes for various reasons, such as avoiding cars pulling out of side roads/drive ways, peds who just step into the road etc.

That's why I'm less against 'cyclist symbols' on the road. These can be good, in the middle of the lane at pinch points and things. They don't box cyclists in, yet if positioned well can allow for more timid cyclists to maybe take primary at a pinch point without feeling they should stick in the gutter. Certainly, one road in Woking has ones which allow you to cycle in primary, and cycle over the cyclist symbol

You say this like you think it's a good thing. In urban centres, at least, I would tend to disagree: if car drivers got more used to having pedestrians on "their" roads I think our streets would become a good deal more civilised

I would agree with that.

 

[chap]

I thought that too at first, but I think the lights just changed....the cars behind look to be pulling away too



That's why I'm less against 'cyclist symbols' on the road. These can be good, in the middle of the lane at pinch points and things. They don't box cyclists in, yet if positioned well can allow for more timid cyclists to maybe take primary at a pinch point without feeling they should stick in the gutter. Certainly, one road in Woking has ones which allow you to cycle in primary, and cycle over the cyclist symbol



I would agree with that.

Wasn't Woking awarded a Cycling city award or something? If so, then including your example, have you noticed many improvements / more cyclists?

 

[mcshroom]

I think given the way that a lot of cycleways are designed painted at the moment then I could imagine all sorts of interesting obsticle courses that the councils could make with rised kerbs and catseyes.

Just have a look at these: -

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/index.htm

 

[Tigerbiten]

At any speed I tend to ride with my inside front wheel around 1'-1'6" from the kurb.
The road tends to be smoother there and I've got room on the indise to dodge pot-holes if needed.
This puts my outside front wheels around 4'-4'6" from the curb.
Any cycle path thats less than 5' wide I think is to narrow for me.
6' is better as it gives me ~18" clearence both sides.

You need to remember about non-standard bikes when designing things.

Luck .......

 

[thomas]

Wasn't Woking awarded a Cycling city award or something? If so, then including your example, have you noticed many improvements / more cyclists?

errrrrm. Maybe. We had the Tour Series which was really good...no matter what some prats say on the newspaper's website.

I think we're some Cycle Town. They have added lots of new cycle parking in a part of town, but I've no idea if more people actually cycle though. The routes I commute I wouldn't really tell as I'm not going into the town centre.

They resurfaced along the canal too actually....I think they have made improvements, but I've not really noticed as they're probably not the sort of things I'd really use.

http://www.woking.gov.uk/transport/cyclewoking/cyclewokingproject.pdf

I see more cyclists in Norwich...but that's just because of all the students

 

[Origamist]

Take a look at this:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpartners/publications/2766.aspx

It recommends 1.5meters in size for a cycle lane, which I would say is reasonable. Cycle lanes need to offer enough space for the cyclist to be able to ride in a secondary position, without feeling like they shouldn't, as well as being wide enough that drivers will give enough overtaking space with the cyclist in that position.

1.5m is the minimum recommended width. 2m is preferred and 2.5m is recommended where cycle flows are high. What we tend to get only meets the minimum requirements and some lanes don't even make the min width.

The Dutch recommend a minumim of 2m, but for heavy cycle flows, recommend 4m.

 

[chap]

1.5m is the minimum recommended width. 2m is preferred and 2.5m is recommended where cycle flows are high. What we tend to get only meets the minimum requirements and some lanes don't even make the min width.

The Dutch recommend a minumim of 2m, but for heavy cycle flows, recommend 4m.

A 4 meter cycle lane!
Sounds good, almost too good to be true

 

[GrasB]

1.5m? I don't think I've been on a non-shared cycle way that wide around here!

 

[ufkacbln]

In Portsmouth we have a classic example...

Off road, separated from the road by a kerb and distance, sepeated from the road and pedestrian side by bollards, clearly marked and identified.

Yet still inaccessible by bike because some pillock decides to drive along it as he thinks it is a car park

 

[chap]

In Portsmouth we have a classic example...

Off road, separated from the road by a kerb and distance, sepeated from the road and pedestrian side by bollards, clearly marked and identified.

Yet still inaccessible by bike because some pillock decides to drive along it as he thinks it is a car park

 

[gbb]

Certainly all the cycle lanes i use on my commute were painted green a few years ago.
It was very striking and nice to see ( i do rate the effort put into cycle lanes in Peterborough by the authorities)...but although it made the lane extremely conspicuous, i cant say if drivers avoided wandering into the lanes, which they certainly do now, now the green surface has aged and faded somewhat.

As previously stated, the only problem here is a cycle lane does seem to bring drivers closer to you. They're on their side, you're on yours, but its a fine line some drivers take.

 

[HJ]

Why not just do away with all the road markings and make all urban into home zones?