Well, it had to happen one day...

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GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
I thought to get a rough idea of the equivalent speed of a head on collision between two cars v's a car hitting a stationary object like a wall you added the square of the two speeds together then took the square root of that. In the case of two cars at 40 mph you're looking at around 56mph.

As to the OP, try not to dwell on the what ifs there are so many permutations it'll drive you crazy & then you'll worry about the outcomes that could have been.
 

Bman

Guru
Location
Herts.
OMG, I can imagine that situation vividly.

I’ve had, as you say, many close passes and a few of them I was expecting a head on! Thankfully that hasn’t happened to me.... I'm glad everyone involved in your incident is more-or-less ok!

I was wondering though, do you know (roughly) what position relative to you, did the first contact take place? 90-100 degrees to your right? But, I suppose escaping unscathed depends greatly on the speeds involved.
 
Aye.There I was thinking the friday pm rush hour commute would be a nightmare when actually the Saturday am commute was a nightmare.
 

Globalti

Legendary Member
Reading your description I simply can't understand how she can have underestimated the amount of room so badly. It's my betting she was chatting on her phone or texting and she didn't spot you until too late then had to swerve to avoid you. Either that or she just hasn't got very good spatial awareness. The Police should prosecute for due care and attention but as nobody was hurt I fear they won't bother. Did the Police check her phone?
 
OP
OP
6

661-Pete

Guest
BentMikey said:
No, collisions don't add up like that. Assuming a complete 40->0 collision, then it'd be much like hitting an immovable object at 40. Pete's example seems to be more glancing than that.
Yup, on reflection I think Mikey's right, there. It was certainly a glancing blow in the sense that both vehicles continued in their former direction after impact, the energy of the collision was plainly absorbed by bits of each car being stoved-in rather than changing the momentum of the car as a whole. The oncoming car finally came to rest in the ditch about 10 yards behind me, whereas the overtaking car ground to a halt in the middle of the road about 5 yards in front of me. Neither car appeared to have slewed round noticeably from its original direction of travel, which was just as well for me, if the overtaking car had got into a horizontal spin its rear end would have swung towards me and possibly taken me out.:wacko:

Bongman said:
I was wondering though, do you know (roughly) what position relative to you, did the first contact take place? 90-100 degrees to your right? But, I suppose escaping unscathed depends greatly on the speeds involved.
Yes, I think it was more or less square-on to me, i.e. at 90 deg. I was in fact looking to the right at that instant (as one often does when being overtaken) and I saw the actual moment of contact.

Globalti said:
Reading your description I simply can't understand how she can have underestimated the amount of room so badly. It's my betting she was chatting on her phone or texting and she didn't spot you until too late then had to swerve to avoid you. Either that or she just hasn't got very good spatial awareness. The Police should prosecute for due care and attention but as nobody was hurt I fear they won't bother. Did the Police check her phone?
I have slept on all this, and now in the light of morning the jitters are gone and what I feel is pure anger. This sort of manoeuvre, the dangerous overtake with not enough room, happens time and time again, innumerable pieces of video from the cameras of Magnatom and others testify to this fact, but in reality I don't need the video evidence of others: I can see this happening daily with my own eyes. How do we get it to stop!? How do we drum it into these idiots' minuscule brain cells, a bicycle is another vehicle and cannot just be overtaken there and then anyplace anytime because it is small and insignificant and takes up no road space. The HC is perfectly clear, you overtake a cyclist exactly as you would overtake another vehicle, only when it is safe to do so, and with the same due care and attention to all other road users. Some drivers simply don't have this message. My feeling is, I want this woman held to account. The fact that she was young, charming, and pretty (slim, petite, short blonde hair, wearing a miniskirt) cuts no ice with me whatsoever. The simple fact was, and the only thing that matters to me, she had in her hands a 2-ton killing machine and was not controlling it correctly.

Globalti: no I don't think she was using a phone. The solitary police officer who turned up, interviewed first the girl, then the driver of the other car, and finally myself. He also had to arrange for recovery vehicles to be summoned. While he was interviewing the other drivers I stood apart at a distance, as a matter of tact and courtesy. I don't think he asked anything about mobile phones nor examined any. Nor was any breath testing done (there was no sign of alcohol involved anyway).
 

Vikeonabike

CC Neighbourhood Police Constable
661-Pete said:
Nor was any breath testing done (there was no sign of alcohol involved anyway).


I'd question the cop doing his job properly...SOP to breath test drivers in the event of an accident.....
I'd also be following up to make sure that a case of due care is at least investigated....you have witnesses, an RTC where the major contributing factor is that vehicle 1 was overtaking a slower moving vehicle (you) on a narrow road and has collided with vehicle 2 on the wrong side of the road...
I'd be pretty pi55ed off with my colleagues if they don't at least take it to CPS for a decision!
 
D

Deleted member 1258

Guest
With the amount of times I have seen people overtaking cyclists, both from other peoples videos and my own experience, into the faces of oncoming traffic I am surprised this sort of collision is not more common.
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
This sort of accident often worries me ... one route - that I don't often use takes me on a narrow winding hill - so I'm going slowly and yet cars overtake me on a blind bend...

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I always worry that they will choose to move back towards me when they realise their error of an oncoming car. I'm glad that didn't happen in your case - if nothing else hopefully her insurance premiums will increase.
 

Matthames

Über Member
Location
East Sussex
Overtaking generally is a skill that a lot of motorists are very poor at. IMHO overtaking is something that should be covered in the DSA test. It is not just overtaking bicycles that is a problem, I have seen some very poor overtaking of cars. It seems that if you have 2 wheels you don't matter to a minority of motorists.

I had a very scary near miss once involving some very poor standards of driving with a Jag. The difference was that the Jag was overtaking another car and I was on a motorcycle. Combined speeds would of been about 120mph, had I not noticed what the idiot was going to do or s/he started his/her manoeuvre later I would of had a head on collision with horrific consequences.
 
OP
OP
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661-Pete

Guest
I went and measured the road at that point, and it is 5.5 metres wide. I think you'll agree, that is far too narrow for a car to overtake a cyclist and pass an oncoming car at the same time. I was probably about 1m from the grass verge, I'm probably about 0.5m wide, and the overtaking car gave me about 1m of clearance (lucky for me): that left only about 3m for the cars to pass in. The arithmetic says it all!

Vike, thanks for your input. Isn't it a fact that two officers need to be in attendance for a motorist to be breathalysed? Or am I confusing this with some other procedure? Anyway only one officer attended, and I don't think anybody had suspicions of alcohol.

Nevertheless I really feel strongly that this woman ought to be brought to account, at least prosecuted for Driving Without Due Care. Indeed such an outcome may do her a favour besides others, make her see the error of her ways and make a better driver of her. Prolong her life, even! I know, I felt I'd become a better driver, once I bagged a conviction way back in 1980 (also for Without Due Care :sad:). Or perhaps I should leave that for others to judge?

Should I pressurise the police in any way? Sent them an E-mail, ask them to follow up this case in the public interest?
 
The trouble is that woman is not the only one.I had a bad one with a car yesterday where he cut in on a pinch point on a bus lane at Stratford ....just outside the church.(Tynan will know it)...Early in the morning approx 530am...I must admit I didn't expect it because it never happens there and there is no need to do it as it's a one lane pinch point with two lanes also making it three lanes in all.So he cuts in and suddenly I see im on a collision course...but the old fixie is very responsive and I had my hand on the brakes anyway...So I swear at him...(I had already checked and there were three cars and their positioning looks no threat....unless the perform a dive like a dive bomber...of which he did....SO I thought...Ok then he's doing a left to get onto the Romford Road...bad driving bad he may have had a reason...although it is an unusual move.He didn't...he made a right towards Stratford Centre...SOmething happened up the road which resulted in the cars with him beeping him...Couldn't see though.

He was either drunk,stoned asleep or just damn stupid.....If I hadn't been so defensive it could have got nasty.
 

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
Thank god she held her course. I think most drivers faced with a head-on would pretty much instinctively swerve away - and into you, in this case.

Hopefully she'll be prosecuted for careless driving, but I would imagine the shock of the crash will make her more careful in future anyway.
 
Very nearly had the same happen to me today whilst I was driving out to Winster. Ended up on the grass verge to avoid an idiot with a motorhome who decided to swing out to try to pass a cyclist going uphill.
 
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