What a tragedy.

[Dogtrousers]

In dangerous condition you basically need to avoid them if possible and never take anything for granted

When I got to university, in an uncharacteristic fit of enthusiasm I joined the hill walking club or whatever it was called. My first outing with them we drove to Wales or the Lakes or somewhere (a feck of a long way I do remember). Anyway it was winter and snowy and we set off on a walk up a hill or mountain or similar lump. I decided I didn't like the look of it at all so I went back and got bladdered in the pub.

That was my first and last outing with that club or society or whatever it was. It didn't help that I thought all the members were tossers. Mind you I spent three years thinking that about most of my fellow students. It was not the happiest time of my life.

 

[Profpointy]

Many years ago I was in the Navy Cadets at school and I went on a 10 day "thing" up on Lock Ewe in Scotland

part of it was an overnight expedition up in the mountains - for NAVY cadets we did do a lot of walking!

anyway - the leaders were the 2 Officers from school - the Senior Office (Lt Cmdr) and the Leiutenant - who was also the by Scout leader so I knew him pretty well

Due to some good navigation from me and a friend of mine we got to the big mountains quicker than usual - so the leader decided to go up over the op rather than through the pass between 2 peaks
He had always wanted to do that as he had been doing that route for many years when he was a leader over the summer and this was the first time he had had the time

anyway - the ridges leading there were covered in thick snow

all was fine until we got to the ridge and started moving along.
The leader was at the front and the Lt. (my Scout leader) was bringing up teh rear
Now - I had also been on winter mountaineering courses and was starting to get a bit worried. I dropped back and told the otehr cadets how to make a good ridge with their foot before putting weight on it.
When I got to the Lt. I said I was concerned and he said he had seen me telling the other how to do it - and thanked be for it
but he didn;t think he could do anything - the leader was not good at taking critisism


anyway - I started making my way back and
suddenly the leader lot it
he shot down the slope at a rate of knots
luckily he landed on his backpack and was flailing around like a stranded turtle - which was good, if he had managed to get his feet down he would have tumbled and we would have been looking for Mountain Rescue and a helicopter!!

anyway - he was lucky and slid to a stop in teh valley - very shaken but not injured

The Lt took charge and asked me what I thought was the best route to get lower - which we did
we also roper together - which we should have done at the start and I took the one and only ice axe as I was trained to use it

We were damn lucky and should never have been up in that snow without better equipment

The leader was a bit of a prat at times

but i have to have a lot of respect for him in that he got us all together and basically said he had been an idiot and irresponsible and apologised in a very humble manner
which was a massive thing for someone like him to do

I also knew a bloke a few years later who was fully trained and everything and was "playing in the snow" on top of a mountain with his friend and his girlfriend
when she slid further and faster than expected and went off a cliff - a proper vertical type cliff

He said to me after that he was basically going down to retrieve a body after it happened - he was amazed that she survived



In dangerous condition you basically need to avoid them if possible and never take anything for granted

I have heard quite a few accounts of novices or "the led" deferring rather too much to a leader who might not be as able as he appears. A bunch of teenagers or inexperienced would mostly likely have turned back rather earlier.

It's a bit of a dilemma as going with someone more experienced is generally seen as "a good thing", but it does have its pitfalls

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I have heard quite a few accounts of novices or "the led" deferring rather too much to a leader who might not be as able as he appears. A bunch of teenagers or inexperienced would mostly likely have turned back rather earlier.

It's a bit of a dilemma as going with someone more experienced is generally seen as "a good thing", but it does have its pitfalls

Especially if they have actual military rank
and are one of your school teachers as well
In that case, I mentioned it all meant that we did not feel we could tell him he was being an idiot
In my case, in spite of being one of the highest ranking cadets at teh time - I did not know him much at all as I had given up his subject (Latin!!) years ago so he never actually taught me

all of which is a dangerous combination

 

[Profpointy]

Especially if they have actual military rank
and are one of your school teachers as well
In that case, I mentioned it all meant that we did not feel we could tell him he was being an idiot
In my case, in spite of being one of the highest ranking cadets at teh time - I did not know him much at all as I had given up his subject (Latin!!) years ago so he never actually taught me

all of which is a dangerous combination

I have heard similar stories from diving trips. For holiday diving you tend to dive as a "follow my leader" group and the leader tends to check everyone's air and so on. I've never been that happy with such diving, as it tends to make people turn their brains off and be too dependant on the so-say leader even if they're capable. In the UK we tend to dive in self-sufficient pairs so make our own decisions, which I much prefer

 

[Hover Fly]

The Yorkshire one appears to not be swimmers, but a teenage girl was swept out to sea and two fellers bravely, but foolhardily, went in to try and rescue her

When I was a stripey crewing safety boats, we were trained that if someone is in difficulty in the water, as soon as someone dives in to help, you have two people in difficulty.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

In that case, I mentioned it all meant that we did not feel we could tell him he was being an idiot

More than an idiot, he was out of his depth, and put the members of the group in danger.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

When I was a stripey crewing safety boats, we were trained that if someone is in difficulty in the water, as soon as someone dives in to help, you have two people in difficulty.

First rule of dealing with a casualty in many scenarios. In going to their aid, ensure you are not rushing into danger yourself, and thus about to become another casualty.

 

[presta]

On four occasions I've been in Youth Hostels when false fire alarms have gone off. At Broad Haven the alarm went off at 5am, and the only other guy in my dorm just lay there asleep or ignoring it. I had to grab his shoulder and shake him to get him to move.

Then there was the 11pm alarm at Bath, that was a faulty smoke detector up in the loft. The hostel staff knew about it because it kept going off every few days, but instead of getting it fixed they just kept evacuating the hostel, and being as they couldn't get into the loft to check it, they had to call the brigade out every time. A few days after I was there I bumped into a guy at Streatley who said "The fire alarm went off at Bath hostel when I was there last night". I don't know how long it was before the fire chief wrote a stiff letter to the YHA, but you'd think the danger of an alarm that keeps crying wolf ought to be obvious.

Whenever I hear a fire alarm I'm almost always the first one to start moving.

Has anyone stayed at Cheltenham YMCA?
That place, by a country mile, must be the most confusing building I have ever been in. It's such a rabbit warren of passageways and corridors that I don't think I managed to get between the entrance and the bedroom by the same route twice. I doubt I'd have had a cat in hell's chance of getting out in a fire.