What do you think?

[mickle]

I've just rebuilt the box of my new (to me) bakfiets.

Pics here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.213232702051276.49741.100000936421951&l=9e0d45fa69&type=1

I carry an assortment of kids in it - our two littlest (five and 10) and others - on 30mph city streets, though I often choose quiet routes if there is the option.

Mrs mickle and I are not in agreement about seat belts. The new box doesn't have them. I don't want them, she does. Ultimately they're her kids and kids of her friends so she gets the casting vote. The trouble is - I am really dead set against them. I cannot imagine a scenario where the kids will be better off wearing a safety/harness belt.

I'd appreciate it if you'd help me investigate the pros and cons.

Cost and installation complexity aside - I like the fact that I can get the kids out quickly, that they'll be thrown free in a collision rather than 'tangled up in the wreckage'. I'm convinced that, unless we construct a full roll-over cage and use a five point harness, they'll actually do more harm than good in an accident.

What do you think? The kids are old and sensible enough to sit still and follow instructions, do you think I should fit belts or no?

 

[tyred]

I wouldn't consider seat belts necessary.

 

[byegad]

In the climate of No win, No fee solicitors touting for business, I'd fit the belts.

IF a child suffers injury despite the seat belts then at least you'd tried to keep them safe if there are no belts or they are not used then it's too easy for a solicitor to imply that belts (And for that matter, a helmet, we've all seen the court judgements and appeals.) would have saved life and/or limb. Should a child suffer injury because of the belts your defence is so much stronger as 'you had taken every precaution and it would have been far worse without the belts.'

Sad, but that's how it could play out.

 

[summerdays]

If you fit them then you will become responsible for making sure they wear them. Are seat belts an option in Holland? What sort of belts would they be - lap belts? When our youngest was going to move out of his car seat and have to use the car belt which was only a lap belt in the middle of the car, it resulted in us buying a new car as I didn't like the reports about lap belts causing injuries (of course no system is perfect).

As an aside I hear you are getting a cover for it!!!

 

[Angelfishsolo]

As far as I am concerned seat belts are only affective when there is a roof or roll cage above you. Do side car passengers wear seat belts? I am definitely anti-seatbelt in an open top carriage.

 

[mickle]

In the climate of No win, No fee solicitors touting for business, I'd fit the belts.

IF a child suffers injury despite the seat belts then at least you'd tried to keep them safe if there are no belts or they are not used then it's too easy for a solicitor to imply that belts (And for that matter, a helmet, we've all seen the court judgements and appeals.) would have saved life and/or limb. Should a child suffer injury because of the belts your defence is so much stronger as 'you had taken every precaution and it would have been far worse without the belts.'

Sad, but that's how it could play out.

That's not part of the equation at all - I'm only interested in what's best for the children. I hear what you are saying, but that mindset, taken to it's logical conclusion, we all might as well stay at home in a nest of bubble wrap.

 

[HLaB]

Its a hard one, part of me says yes even though you know your kids, your cycling; you can't account for the muppets out there 100% who might force you into an emergency stop or something. But the other part of me says no; why should you have to take account of others, risk compensation, etc.

 

[chris-s]

I don't know about seat belts, but it looks like some handles could be of benefit rather than just trying to grip onto the sides. When you are sat on the saddle, you are able to brace yourself against the handlebars, sat in the front there is nothing to brace yourself against and I think I would feel quite 'vulnerable' just perched there, so perhaps a simple lap belt/handles would offer some degree of protection/comfort?

Chris

 

[mickle]

I don't know about seat belts, but it looks like some handles could be of benefit rather than just trying to grip onto the sides. When you are sat on the saddle, you are able to brace yourself against the handlebars, sat in the front there is nothing to brace yourself against and I think I would feel quite 'vulnerable' just perched there, so perhaps a simple lap belt/handles would offer some degree of protection/comfort?

Chris

Good point. I have been pondering handles. I was initially considering cutting kidney shaped holes in the sides to provide something to grab on to, but that would leave hands and/or fingers outside of the box and therefore exposed and vulnerable. So some sort of grab-rails or handles inside are required. Maybe a removeable horizontal rail attached to the sides... Dunno, needs further thinkings.

 

[mickle]

The latest edition, a gert lush waterproof canopy courtesy of Rob off of Really Useful Bikes in Brizzol.

I bloody loves it.

 

[summerdays]

The latest edition, a gert lush waterproof canopy courtesy of Rob off of Really Useful Bikes in Brizzol.

I bloody loves it.

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I always try out a different bike each time we go to Really Useful Bikes and this weekend it was the Bakfiets which rode nicely apart from feeling slightly odd when cornering - I guess it is something you get used to after 10 mins. I was discussing your bales of hay picture as Mr Summerdays was picking up a wheel. Hence how I knew you had ordered the cover.

 

[mickle]

I always try out a different bike each time we go to Really Useful Bikes and this weekend it was the Bakfiets which rode nicely apart from feeling slightly odd when cornering - I guess it is something you get used to after 10 mins. I was discussing your bales of hay picture as Mr Summerdays was picking up a wheel. Hence how I knew you had ordered the cover.

Aha!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I though Bakfiets came with belts these days? The one in the 'sham certainly has belts fitted.

 

[mickle]

I though Bakfiets came with belts these days? The one in the 'sham certainly has belts fitted.

Not this one, it's now on its third box - the original belts got lost along the way.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Not this one, it's now on its third box - the original belts got lost along the way.

more ambulance chasing lawyer fodder then "M'lud, the accused knew full well that belts should have been fitted and used" etc., etc..

Seat belts are not useless without a roll cage. Roll cages are near useless without seat belts.