What have farmers got against birds?

[Danny]

I'd be surprised if anyone was actually shooting rooks. Although they can dig up and eat seeds, they are much better at eating the leatherjackets etc. that are major agricultural pests.

Well the birds they were shooting were big and black.

 

[Cubist]

Danny, what you saw was an organised pheasant shoot. No one shoots Rooks at this time of year, that's an exercise for early summer where an amount of necessary culling of branchers takes place. It's done at quiet times of day, these days most effectively with air rifles.

What you have described is a pheasant drive, where a team of shooters ("guns") are shooting at pheasants driven out of the woods by a team of beaters.

It takes place on farmland, and some syndicates may include farmers, but it's most likely to be a paying syndicate of guns drawn from all strata of society. As an industry it supports a huge proportion of the countryside economy. A well managed estate will sell shooting days for around £40 per brace of birds to be shot. The pheasant shooting season lasts from October to the 1st of February.

 

[Danny]

They weren't pheasants.

The farmers were actually standing by the small wood waiting for birds who roost their to return. There were no beaters involved - the birds were flying back in across open farmland.

And I've recently seen a number of individual farms shooting at birds in a similar way in other locations.

 

[Cubist]

What time was it?
Reason I ask is that anyone who shoots at birds heading into roost do so at dusk, usually from inside the wood itself. And traditionally again, that's a February passtime, with roosting pigeon being the main quarry.

How could you tell the people were farmers? You rarely see more than one, unless you are at a market, or a Mercedes dealership.

 

[Ian H]

Farmers do have a prejudice against rooks. My late father-in-law used to set a trap with a caged rook as 'bait'. Others would investigate, get caught, and have their necks wrung. Another farmer of my acquaintance has stated that, if he had his way, no animal would live in his hedges and no bird would overfly his land (admittedly, he is extreme).

 

[4F]

Rook's you say
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IISZgCEaoE&feature=PlayList&p=0462A181A98304D3&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=39

 

[Danny]

What time was it?
Reason I ask is that anyone who shoots at birds heading into roost do so at dusk, usually from inside the wood itself. And traditionally again, that's a February passtime, with roosting pigeon being the main quarry.

How could you tell the people were farmers? You rarely see more than one, unless you are at a market, or a Mercedes dealership.

It was about 3pm. I accept it was too early for birds to roost (as in go to bed), but they looked like they were flying to it to have a bit of a rest in one of the trees.

They looked and sounded like farmers as opposed to toffs who had paid a paid a fortune to hunt pheasants - but I accept that they could have been toffs who had dressed down for the occasion and were just blasting anything they could out of the sky.

However as I said, I have in recent weeks also seen individual farmers shooting rooks on their land.

 

[Cubist]

It was about 3pm. I accept it was too early for birds to roost (as in go to bed), but they looked like they were flying to it to have a bit of a rest in one of the trees.

They looked and sounded like farmers as opposed to toffs who had paid a paid a fortune to hunt pheasants - but I accept that they could have been toffs who had dressed down for the occasion and were just blasting anything they could out of the sky.

However as I said, I have in recent weeks also seen individual farmers shooting rooks on their land.

Your prejudice makes it impossible to answer your questions. Try posting without being so f*cking rude. You don't actually want answers as to what was happening, you just want to clarion your distate for it and those who take part.

I guess what has happened is that you have come across something you don't understand, and you are determined to have a go at whatever it was you saw, whether it was right or wrong.

I've tried to answer your questions from an experienced point of view, but you end up labelling me and the people who practice an old, traditional and sustainable sport as toffs.

 

[snakehips]

Where my father lived as a boy , Berkshire pre - 1920 , they had organised Rook shoots for food.

 

[Cubist]

My grandma used to make rook pie - very tasty it was too!

This is the by-product of the early summer cull, when young and tender branchers are shot from the rookery with air rifles or, more traditionally, very small calibre rook-rifles. I'm told the breasts are very tasty, and mixed with steak to make the best pies.

 

[Danny]

Your prejudice makes it impossible to answer your questions. Try posting without being so f*cking rude. You don't actually want answers as to what was happening, you just want to clarion your distate for it and those who take part.

It was you who raised the issue of pheasant shooting, even though I was clear that the people I had seen were not shooting pheasants.

If farmers don't have it in for rooks and crows why do some of the ones round here still hang dead ones from their gates?

 

[Cubist]

It was you who raised the issue of pheasant shooting, even though I was clear that the people I had seen were not shooting pheasants.

If farmers don't have it in for rooks and crows why do some of the ones round here still hang dead ones from their gates?

I was trying to say 1. From a distance, and in low light (like 3pm in December) some people could mistake pheasants for rooks.
2. Rooks are not, traditionally shot at this time of year.
3. Roosting pigeon may have been the quarry, but if people were doing it in the middle of a field they wouldn't have been very successful at it, because all the pigeons would fly away and find a wood that didn't have people on the approach paths. And in any case, the traditional time to shoot roosting pigeon is February.
4. When pheasants are driven from a wood, it is essential that you give them somewhere to go to. Usually this is another wood, otherwise they fly back into the same wood, or run away down a hedgeline.
5. At that sort of time of day most shoots will be on the last drive, and will be dogging the birds back into the woods from the surrounding fields and hedgerows. Not all shoots do this, nor indeed shoot at them on the way back into roost.

Farmers tend to shoot vermin or pest species in order to keep crop damage to a minimum. They don't have time to "blast everything from the sky" for the sake of it. I'm afraid your emotive use of language did not encourage healthy debate.

Again, traditionally, pests are hung from fences for a variety of reasons. One reason is that the people who are employed to remove inedible pests from land were by nature solitary folk. They hang the evidence of a paid day's work on the fence to show the employer that they have been busy, and that there is still a reason to employ them. This obviously predates mobile phones and the sort of era when it would be OK for someone as lowly as a warrener or molecatcher to walk up to the big house and knock on the door.

So, shake and make up, work with me on this one and try to keep your dislike for farmers and toffs to a minimum, and I will genuinely try and answer your questions.

1. How many people were there?

2. What were they wearing?

3. Did they have dogs with them?

4. Could you see any vehicles?

 

[Danny]

I was trying to say 1. From a distance, and in low light (like 3pm in December) some people could mistake pheasants for rooks.
2. Rooks are not, traditionally shot at this time of year.
3. Roosting pigeon may have been the quarry, but if people were doing it in the middle of a field they wouldn't have been very successful at it, because all the pigeons would fly away and find a wood that didn't have people on the approach paths. And in any case, the traditional time to shoot roosting pigeon is February.
4. When pheasants are driven from a wood, it is essential that you give them somewhere to go to. Usually this is another wood, otherwise they fly back into the same wood, or run away down a hedgeline.
5. At that sort of time of day most shoots will be on the last drive, and will be dogging the birds back into the woods from the surrounding fields and hedgerows. Not all shoots do this, nor indeed shoot at them on the way back into roost.

Farmers tend to shoot vermin or pest species in order to keep crop damage to a minimum. They don't have time to "blast everything from the sky" for the sake of it. I'm afraid your emotive use of language did not encourage healthy debate.

Again, traditionally, pests are hung from fences for a variety of reasons. One reason is that the people who are employed to remove inedible pests from land were by nature solitary folk. They hang the evidence of a paid day's work on the fence to show the employer that they have been busy, and that there is still a reason to employ them. This obviously predates mobile phones and the sort of era when it would be OK for someone as lowly as a warrener or molecatcher to walk up to the big house and knock on the door.

So, shake and make up, work with me on this one and try to keep your dislike for farmers and toffs to a minimum, and I will genuinely try and answer your questions.

1. How many people were there?

2. What were they wearing?

3. Did they have dogs with them?

4. Could you see any vehicles?

Just to make it clear, I have nothing against farmers.

Now if you want a forensic analysis of the scence.

1. The people I saw were standing near the road on the bare field you should be able to see here. They were so close (less than 50m) to the road that I could clearly see what they were shooting and it was not pheasants - however I accept that they may have been shooting pheasants before or after I got there. The light was actually very good as the sun was not quite below the horizon.

2. There were 6-10 people

3. They were wearing fairly ordinary sort of outdoor clothes - no sign of designer labels.

4. One dog that I could see.

5. No vehicles, which is one reason I concluded that they were local farmers

 

[Cubist]

I'll do my best:

Just to make it clear, I have nothing against farmers. Good. They really f*cking hate people who judge them without knowledge of their way of life.

Now if you want a forensic analysis of the scence. I don't, but unless you describe it accurately then we only have histrionics and prejudice to go by.

1. The people I saw were standing near the road on the bare field you should be able to see here. They were so close (less than 50m) to the road that I could clearly see what they were shooting and it was not pheasants - however I accept that they may have been shooting pheasants before or after I got there. The light was actually very good as the sun was not quite below the horizon. In that case you were watching a pheasant or partridge drive. The landscape in the google image is perfect for it. The beaters may have been as much as three fields away, you could only see the guns. Someone was probably taking a potshot at a crow or similar. What you describe is not a rook shoot.

2. There were 6-10 people Exactly the sort of numbers to be expected on a pheasant/partridge drive

3. They were wearing fairly ordinary sort of outdoor clothes - no sign of designer labels. Did you expect Burberry? Unless you can decipher the Le Chameau or Aigle logos on their wellies, you ain't gonna see labels on any form of shooting clothing. Labels are vulgar.

4. One dog that I could see. That you could see. The rest would have been with the beaters, or discreetly out of sight with the pickers-up.

5. No vehicles, which is one reason I concluded that they were local farmers. Inconclusive I'm afraid, may have been out of sight.

 

[ASC1951]

They looked and sounded like farmers as opposed to toffs who had paid a paid a fortune to hunt pheasants - but I accept that they could have been toffs who had dressed down for the occasion and were just blasting anything they could out of the sky.

Let's be fair, Danny, we know you are blind as a bat without your Class Warrior wrap-arounds.

IME most farmers are happy to see birds on their land if they don't take too much of the crop; and most shooters care more about wildlife than your average townie.

Not something I get excited about, either way.