What height rider?

[sittingbull]

The usual frame size question the opposite way around

A friend is after a frame-set by a particular Liverpool frame builder, they don't come up often but we've found one from the 70's. The seat tube is 52cm (CTC) and the horizontal top tube is 53cm (CTC).

I know there are various factors to consider, but as a ball-park figure what would be the maximum height of rider for this frame?

 

[sidevalve]

If it's from the seventies that's quite a small frame [about 20 1/2 inch in real measurements]. It depends on what you intend to use it for but I wouldn't really expect anyone over 5 - 9 poss 10 to fit it. However each to his own and a lot of things can be adjusted to suit.

 

[compo]

In the good old days a ball park estimate for frame size was the measurement of the rider's inside leg less 10 inches. I have a 29" inside leg (crotch to floor) and am comfortable on a 19" or 20" inch frame.

this of course doesn't take into consideration other factors such as the length of the top tube.

 

[tyred]

The thing is, with long MTB seatposts and those ugly looking quill riser things available now, a tall person could potentially ride a very small frame. It just looks wrong in some cases.

Personally, most of my road frames are larger than what would be considered ideal using modern sizing methods but it works for me - dodgy back means I can't do low bar position and a tall frame means I can easily get the bars where I want them with just about any stem.

 

[sittingbull]

Thanks for the helpful replies

On the basis of these (and his own doubts) my friend Ken has decided to give this particular frame a miss

He's 5' 9" and it's too close to chance when the frame is starting at £119 (plus p&p). Also the seller has told me he would score it 7/10 cosmetically, so Ken would need to consider the possibility of a professional re-paint.

The particular frame is here.

Ken knows the frame builder, Norman Roberts, who built for "Walvale Cycles", Walton Vale, Liverpool.

Norman Roberts built the frame ridden to victory by Bill Nickson in the 1976 Milk Race. He's done numerous jobs for Ken including straightening forks, cold setting and re-builds.

The search for a Walvale continues....

 

[TheCyclingRooster]

I was very saddened recently to here of the passing of Norman Roberts. I have been out of touch these last 12 to 18 months and was really quite sad to have missed paying my respects to the real little gentleman of cycling history in Liverpool.
I was told that the funeral was very very well attended by some of the local and nationally known cyclists and people that were involved in cycling and all that it involves,Norman was a quiet man and once met his quiet nature and pleasant disposition ahead of his immense knowledge and skill was never forgotten.
My heart goes out to Shirley and their family albeit rather late in the day.
Norman was a understated giant in the world of cycling in my home city of Liverpool albeit I left the area many years ago but on occasions I had returned with a phone call in advance to have Norman fettle a frame or two before sending it off to C&G Finishes for a new jacket.

 

[biggs682]

What with Barry Bond also passing away recently thats 2 very highly skilled frame builders no longer with us

Such a shame

 

[User6179]

I usually ride a 56cm but have 58cm and a 55cm bikes , I bought a Giant defy in a small from a mate for parts but decided to try it with a long stem and it fits fine, it is 52/53 seat tube and top tube and I am 5ft 11 inches .

 

[rogerzilla]

The drop to the handlebars is too great on an undersize frame with a horizontal top tube, unless you get a really long quill stem like a Nitto Technomic. Then, it will just be a bit gawky and flexy.

The frame in the OP is really small one, possibly built for a woman.

 

[TheCyclingRooster]

In the good old days a ball park estimate for frame size was the measurement of the rider's inside leg less 10 inches. I have a 29" inside leg (crotch to floor) and am comfortable on a 19" or 20" inch frame.

this of course doesn't take into consideration other factors such as the length of the top tube.

Hi compo. The is a very very arguable/questionable statement to make,even rather subjective.
I would be in deep shoot if I were to have adopted that line of thinking in the early to late 60's. I currently stand at 4'10" tall and with a 23" inside leg measurement in bare feet,in the early 60's I was 4'11" and the standard banter of the day was that if my dad had pushed a bit harder I might have reached a full 5'.
If you are referring to the ability stand-over the frame with both feet flat on the floor then that does make sense but there again that would have had me still riding teenagers frames on 24" wheels and with a single-speed free-wheel.
As it happened during the early to mid 60's was riding the 19.5" Hetchins Curly in the attached image and with full 170mm cranks.
When it came to a standstill I would always come to rest with my left leg extended to the ground and the cross bar under my right thigh.
I rode on Sprints and Tubs everywhere I went.
Even now I ride a 20" frame (Steve Goff) but since having had a replacement left knee in November 2007 I am limited to 140mm cranks to enable the full circulatory action of the cranks.
I also have a 20.5" Benotto 850 Modelo also on 140mm cranks but with the seat adjusted a tad lower accordingly.
Everything about my cycling and riding style is subjective even down to the careful choice of frame geometry and accessories.
The Steve Goff is fitted with a 100mm stem and the Benotto with a 125mm stem,both afford the same degree of riding comfort and at pushing 72 years young that is important - no head down - arse in the air posture from me it is all about still enjoying my late life cycling albeit I avoid the wet weather runs that once were just an inconvenient part of a of a club run/training evening out.
My reasoning is that I don't wish to get my bikes filthy and spoil the paintwork and bright-parts.

 

[davidphilips]

Very nice bikes, may i ask are you sure your stems are not a bit to long i know its all a mater of personal preference and whats best for yourself but when i set a bike up for myself i try to be just not be able to see the front axle when ridding on the hoods i know with different drop bar lenghts etc there a bit of give and take.

The bikes are a credit to you love the chrome forks not as many about now as there was even a few years ago, have a great weekend.

 

[TheCyclingRooster]

Very nice bikes, may i ask are you sure your stems are not a bit to long i know its all a mater of personal preference and whats best for yourself but when i set a bike up for myself i try to be just not be able to see the front axle when ridding on the hoods i know with different drop bar lenghts etc there a bit of give and take.

The bikes are a credit to you love the chrome forks not as many about now as there was even a few years ago, have a great weekend.

Hi David & to you. Yes in both cases - yes I can just see the front hub/axles. I am in terms of fitting for a suite - very bespoke and described as 382 chest/extra short jacket.
I have found that the slightly forward position offers me a greater control over the steering that when my arms are in a somewhat retracted position albeit any further forward will result in jolting of the shoulder joint and the inevitable pain associated with such extended riding styles.
I have a relatively short torso in relation to my leg length and my arms Pit to Centre of Palm is 20". Note the somewhat high mounting position of the levers,I am also blessed with somewhat larger and powerful hands than many that are the height that I should be if it were not for an heredity condition known as Hypophosphatemic rickets - I should have been some 8" to 9" taller than I am,both of my younger brothers were head and shoulders above me in height.
I was often ignorantly thought of as suffering from Dwarfism - a totally different condition.