What I am learning from cycling in Denmark

[Flying_Monkey]

I was in Copenhagen last year with a group of Dutch people. They were surprised at how many people were wearing helmets - they seem far more prevalent than in NL.

I think Copenhagen is a bit rougher than out here in the sticks...

 

[fimm]

Austria?? Really???

 

[Andrew_Culture]

I had one of the nicest days of cycling ever in Copenhagen, I thought I had a video online somewhere but I can't find it.

 

[ManiaMuse]

Problem in UK regarding cycling policy is lack of political will and money to do a proper job of cycling infrastructure. This leads to half arsed efforts that neither make cycling safer or more enjoyable, rarely give priority to cyclists, don't protect cyclists when they most need help, and put cyclists in an awkward position where they are viewed with suspicion and contempt by both pedestrians and motorists.

I'm not completely against helmet cams and 'militant', shouty cyclists as without them them there would be less 'evidence' of conditions for cycling campaigners to draw upon. However I do think there needs to be more focus on promoting 'utility cycling' (cycling to the shops/to see friends/to the pub etc in normal clothes and not at 20mph).

I have cycled in The Netherlands (The Hague) briefly on a 3-speed-bike-with-a-basket on cycle paths at a leisurely pace and it was quite relaxing. Having said that, I have also cycled on a knackered bike around Malaysia on roads full of crazy drivers/unlicensed taxis/insane moped riders/potholed roads and no cycling infrastructure and I felt pretty safe there as well because nearly every driver would give me a wide birth.

Paris is another good example, they haven't gone the whole hog with cycling infrastructure but they have done things like painting really clear and obvious cycle markings across junctions and claiming space from some wide backstreets and pavements for decently wide, 2-way cycle tracks that don't run into bustops and streetsigns and actually go somewhere useful. Overall it felt like a lot more joined up thinking had taken place whereas in the UK it seems councils fill their quota of cycle infrastructure without really thinking about who will use it and where they are likely going. Generally I felt pretty safe pottling around Paris on a Velib, whereas I'm not sure I would feel the same way in London on a Boris Bike (will give it a go when it comes to West London...)

 

[snorri]

With the exception of Poland, the UK is the worst country in Europe to cycle in.
IME

 

[kedab]

QED the cars are the problem not the roads.

Recently I had a delightful, long, ride down the A23 to south of Crawley and along the A264 to Horsham. Delightful. Dual carriageway and all. Splendid stuff. Between 01:00 and 03:00 in the morning you see. Hardly any cars.

that is brave - i've often considered doing a stretch of dual carriageway when finishing a late shift @ 2am...but just the thought of riding a few miles down the a14 instead of 'going the long way round' cambridge, just fills me with dread and i've not got up the courage to do it yet

 

[400bhp]

I enjoy my commutes in the UK

Am I deluded?

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

I have cycled in both Denmark (total of around 21 days touring) & the Netherlands (total of 8 days touring) and both countries are a pleasure to cycle in. We particularly likes Denmark because of the drivers. It took a while to get the hang of it and we repeatedly showed ourselves to be from overseas becuase we kept stopping at junctions/looking very surprised when cars stopped for us or we said thank you when a car held back, not overtaking us because it was planning on turning left some 250-500m in front of us! On several occasions our hesitation nearly caused road accidents! Drivers expected us to anticipate being let out and we were simply not ready for that.
For instance I was on a cycle lane at a roundabout that had taken us onto the 'pavement' and was waiting to cross the main road leading off the roundabout. i was not ready for what happened next - the car exiting the roundabout stopped! it stopped to let me across the road because it was clear to the driver I was with my OH who had already crossed the roundabout safely and was waiting for me on the otherside. The driver behind the first driver had to stop suddenly squeeling their brakes, but there were no horns, no angry looks just acceptance that I was not used to cars stopping for cyclists and every one proceeded happily on their way, once I was across the roundabout!
Of the 2 countries I did prefer cycling in Denmark becuase it was more relaxed with less restrictions. In the Netherlands we often came across roads which were cycle free roads and it took a while to get the hang of it, but their system of cycle lanes is excellent, well maintaned and smoother than most UK roads and is easy to navigate. On the other hand becuase of the fast/slow cyclist issues in the Netherlands, it is the one and only country I have come across that has speed bumps specifically aimed at cyclists and they are not nice to cycle over.

It is simply an attitude issue in the UK nothing more.

 

[GrasB]

that is brave - i've often considered doing a stretch of dual carriageway when finishing a late shift @ 2am...but just the thought of riding a few miles down the a14 instead of 'going the long way round' cambridge, just fills me with dread and i've not got up the courage to do it yet

The A11 at 4:30-5:00 am is fine, about 1 vehicle passing every 30-40 seconds. Only had one objection in the few years I've been doing it.

 

[snailracer]

QED the cars are the problem not the roads.

Recently I had a delightful, long, ride down the A23 to south of Crawley and along the A264 to Horsham. Delightful. Dual carriageway and all. Splendid stuff. Between 01:00 and 03:00 in the morning you see. Hardly any cars.

Well where I live (Surrey) the roads are also crap. There are about 15 potholes in the 200 yards between my house and the local post office, which is 15 more than I saw in a whole week of cycling around Copenhagen.

 

[snailracer]

No experience of Denmark but we were in Netherlands in 2011 and it was exactly an FM describes. Everybody rode gracefully - none of the commuter racing we get over here. Not sure how segregated lanes will work with faster/slower riders. Expect cyclist vs cyclist conflict.

Amsterdam isn't actually cycle friendly at all. Narrow shared roads littered with parked cars, cobbles, tram tracks and tourists blundering about on foot. Despite this, the place is overrun with cyclists.

 

[Dayvo]

Norway is great to cycle in (motorist-to-cyclist-wise). It's just the standard of the roads that is pi$$ poor.

 

[perplexed]

If I did, I would be making it up as I am not in Austria. So sorry for being in the wrong country. I had thought of some possible objections that I might get but this wasn't one of them!

And yes, not all infrastructure is segregated - it switches around quite a lot. But it's rather misleading to say 'only a quarter to a third' without reference to how much infrastructure this is in the first place, and what you mean by 'infrastructure' anyway. I wouldn't call much of what exists supposedly for cyclists in the UK, 'infrastructure', for example. It definitely seems like a hell of a lot in Aarhus.

Aarhus. Is it in the middle of your street? Aarhus...

With all due apologies to Mr Suggs...

 

[kedab]

The A11 at 4:30-5:00 am is fine, about 1 vehicle passing every 30-40 seconds. Only had one objection in the few years I've been doing it.

i seen the newmarket club riders TTing down the a14 during the day and i've also seen a few 'everyday' riders using it during the day too but i'm very aware that it's a very quick, very busy place to be on a pushbike...not so much at 2am but still a bit daunting. i'll give it a go this summer, if we ever get one.

 

[GrasB]

On the other hand becuase of the fast/slow cyclist issues in the Netherlands, it is the one and only country I have come across that has speed bumps specifically aimed at cyclists and they are not nice to cycle over.

I found it a real problem test riding bikes. I was buying a performance bike, so one thing I wanted to know is how it felt/handled at high speed. This proved to be rather difficult to do safely, even when I was aiming to ride about 100 miles in the day & be up for test riding the day after, so hardly going for it, I found that this to be an issue. Certainly I'd hate to train in the Netherlands based on my experiences.

This experience has since been mirrored by a Dutch post-doc who said they prefer riding in the UK to the Netherlands as he could simply go exactly where he wanted on the road net work without two thoughts about it. The exception was motorways & motorway like A-roads, but that was more self preservation kicking in & tell him that it was a bad idea to ride on the M11 & A14.